Alfa Romeo Forums banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
293 Posts
Discussion Starter #1

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
293 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Hey, Pasadena......I lived there for a few years back in the previous century. I liked it quite a lot.

Do you have those Wilwoods on an Alfa?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,198 Posts
I use slotted and drilled discs with Ferodo DS2500 pads, and my Spider will launch you against the seat belts very convincingly. Maybe try that first, unless you want to track the car occasionally.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
103 Posts
I too had these in mind and love to hear from those who are using them. I recall reading in one of Braden's books that Alfa brakes are plenty for our cars. I figured I'd get the Centerline cross drilled rotors/pads/ and braided line kit instead. Is this what your using Alfaloco?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,198 Posts
I too had these in mind and love to hear from those who are using them. I recall reading in one of Braden's books that Alfa brakes are plenty for our cars. I figured I'd get the Centerline cross drilled rotors/pads/ and braided line kit instead. Is this what your using Alfaloco?
Yes, I also have the stainless steel braided/TFE hoses. The improvement was really dramatic over the stock brakes, which were good to begin with. Like throwing an anchor out the window...

But then, my S4 is not a track-run car, either. That's a whole different ball game when it comes to brake fade.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
293 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
I think the alfaloco method of optimizing the stock brakes with regard to pads, lines, rotors, and a really solid bleed is the most sensible way to go. I won't be tracking the car.

The problem for me is I'm not sensible when it comes to my 28 year old Italian mistress......what Gabriela wants, Gabriela gets.:surprise:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,025 Posts
I too had these in mind and love to hear from those who are using them. I recall reading in one of Braden's books that Alfa brakes are plenty for our cars. I figured I'd get the Centerline cross drilled rotors/pads/ and braided line kit instead. Is this what your using Alfaloco?
Keep in mind that drilled rotors do nothing but look pretty. There was a time before modern brake pads that there were significant gasses that needed to escape, and drilled rotors allowed that to happen- but outgassing is no longer an issue. Drilled rotors also make some sense in applications like motorcycles or dragsters where very light weight rotors are helpful and braking demands are light. On a regular car, the weight savings is immaterial but the holes add a failure point. If you plan to track your car, drilled rotors are very much a no-no.

Regarding the Wilwoods: There are a widely used and decent enough aftermarket brake caliper. I had a set of Outlaw 2800 Calipers (Performatek kit), which are basically an identical design to the Wilwoods. You won't see a massive improvement over stock, but they look pretty and are easy to source pads for (and swap pads with). The biggest issue with 105/115 brakes is the non-vented rotor. There are some kits (such as Alfaholics and the more expensive Girodisc kit from Centerline) that upgrade to vented rotors. I'm now running a 6-pot Alfaholics caliper kit with two-piece vented rotors, which provides very nice feel and is pretty much fade proof on such a light car. Overall, I would think the Centerline kit is worthwhile if you are in need of new calipers anyways and aren't a stickler for originality. If you are looking for a significant performance upgrade for the track, I'd choose a kit that gives you a vented rotor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
207 Posts
Agree with all the feedback. My experience: The wilwood 4 piston brakes from Centerline fit my spider perfectly and work better than the OEM calipers with Ferodo DS2500 brake pads. Honestly the DS2500 is the best approach if your calipers are in good shape and you have a daily driver. The price point of the wilwoods compared to rebuilding well worn (pin holes were ovalized) OEM calipers and the 11.2 lb total weight savings was a no brainer for me. I was disappointed no one offered rear wilwood conversions. So I have Alfaholics on the rear.

One consideration for Wilwood, Alfaholics, and the other aftermarket Alfa calipers is it that they do not have dust seals on the pistons. If you drive in inclement weather this may increase your preventive maintenance checklist.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,198 Posts
My own experience with the slotted/drilled discs is a definite improvement in wet weather braking and control, both on older motorcycles, and with our two Alfas. They are functional, based on my real world street driving. But do buy top quality discs, with quality machining if you go that direction.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,025 Posts
My own experience with the slotted/drilled discs is a definite improvement in wet weather braking and control, both on older motorcycles, and with our two Alfas. They are functional, based on my real world street driving. But do buy top quality discs, with quality machining if you go that direction.
If you are concerned about wet weather, you can get all of the benefits from slots only (no drilled). Slots do have a minor benefit and don't have the same risk of cracking. I do run slotted rotors on my car.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
293 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Personally I've never had problems with drilled rotors nor have I seen any but it makes sense that the holes could be a trouble spot. The 15" drilled rotors on my 'Stang were fine but I run slotted only on the Golf R.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
103 Posts
I will probably get the centerline Performance Brake Kit 115 for my S4 this spring. Thats the slotted and drilled rotors, braided lines, and pads. I need to verify which pads are included. If my front calipers need rebuilt, then I'll just get the Wilwoods(Just so I have something to look forward to!) Just need to find the time to do the work!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
293 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
What the heck.......I ordered the Wilwood caliper kit from Centerline today. I hope to get 'em installed by this time next week and I'll report back.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
279 Posts
"Yes, I also have the stainless steel braided/TFE hoses. The improvement was really dramatic over the stock brakes, which were good to begin with. Like throwing an anchor out the window..."


SS braided hoses look great, but I've heard the metal braid - which is mostly for show on a street application - can conceal, and could even provoke, cracking of the rubber hose that actually does the work.

I've been told braid brake hoses are good for track use, where they are replaced at short intervals, but less so for street use.

Thoughts?

David O'D
Laguna CA
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,198 Posts
Well David, again I'll relate some of my own experience and prior job background here to address some myths out there.

The brake hoses with stainless braided wire cover, are generally extruded teflon tubing on the interior, not rubber. At least the REAL ones, which are sold as quality performance upgrades. The hose itself being a heavy wall TFE extrusion instead of reinforced rubber, will not expand under pressure, as much as rubber hoses (no matter the reinforcing within the wall). This characteristic of the TFE tube is what enhances pedal feel, with a somewhat firmer pedal under braking. So it's real hydraulics, not imagined. The SS braid is protective as well as functional reinforcement of the hose, being resistant to corrosion. So regardless of street or track use, these high performance brake and clutch hoses are of benefit to the enthusiast driver. Even the clutch hoses installed on a hydraulic slave cylinder, as on our Alfas, will actuate the clutch arm faster since there is no expansion of the hose when pressure is applied with the pedal. Sure, it's maybe milliseconds, but the clutch will react faster because the entire system moves more quickly and more positively. After we installed a TFE/SS braid hose on my son's GTV 6 slave cylinder, you could sense the difference in an easier shift with less tendency to grind 2nd gear.

I hope this information helps to clarify the application and construction of these types of brake hoses. But the fact is, all the separate improvements roll up together to produce the improved braking I described on my S4. The Ferodo pads, drilled/slotted discs, and the SS/TFE hoses. BTW I stayed with the original Castrol DOT 4 brake fluid, for road and autocross use.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
279 Posts
Hi AlfaLoco -

Not long ago I asked the owner of the shop who maintains my Spider to replace my brake hoses with braided SS hoses. He is well known here with a good reputation, and advised against for the reasons I cited.

You make some good points, especially less expansion under pressure sounds significant.

My concern is durability. Anyone here used one set of braided brake hoses for years on end?

Thanks,

David O'D
Laguna CA
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,198 Posts
Well, again all I can relate to you is my own experience. I'm sure the gentleman you mention has a lot more exposure day to day than I do, and I respect his opinion. But, I have had these on my Spider for at least ten years, with no issues at all. I drive my S4 the way Alfas were meant to be driven, and when conditions are right I do push the limits. So, my brakes get some occasional hard use, alright. I do not track the car because it has no roll bar, but it gets driven hard from time to time. And I'm nearly 70 years old, been autocrossing, wrenching and sliding cars around since I was 16, so I got a fairly well developed seat of the pants feel! :grin2:

Now-- I am talking about high quality, DOT certified hose assemblies, not some fake cheap wire covered rubber hoses for the ricer crowd. These high performance hose assemblies have been available for quite some time now, and I bought mine from a well known Alfa parts vendor along with the pads and discs. I have not heard any widespread negative reports of the quality DOT certified hoses that have been on the market for years.

Just whatever you decide, go with top quality parts. You won't regret it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
I have the Centerline kit on my current '69 GTV and like it a lot. I'm running without the boosters too.
I have the slotted/drilled rotors because they look cool.

The calipers are (per Centerline) around 6 pounds lighter per caliper- that is a big unsprung weight savings.

I had a stock brake set up on my last '69 GTV - with the 2 boosters and feel the Willwood set up stops better even without the boosters. (maybe the old boosters had gone bad and were not doing anything...)

My mechanics, who complain about anything non-stock, like the Willwood set up as well.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top