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This is just another example of the homogonization of the world. Pretty soon you'll be able buy the same cars, eat in the same crappy chain restaurants, stay in the same bland predictable hotels, and see the same crappy movies in the same chain theaters anywhere in the world. You won't even have to learn a few words of the local (read that: local commoner) language.

I liked it a lot better before globalization. But don't worry, with the jobs and future wealth of the middle class being exported to China by our own "gubment" and corporate elite, there won't be too many people left in the US that'll be able to afford to buy those Frankencar generic-mobiles.

This is one reason I have ZERO interest in even considering buying a new car. They're just not exciting anymore. Now we'll have a car with an Italian name, with an GM engine, built in Oz.
 

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Engines are designed to be able to be built anywhere, and to be exactly the same. That IS how they are designed. Nothing is hand polished anymore- you'll never find the grinding in the head like you find on a Nord engine anymore.

Enignes are a commodity for most companies anymore, especially for mass marketed cars.

Would it make a difference if the engine was a Ford Duratec 3.0l V6? It almost was. Or a Hyundi V6, which it was for a little while.

You can think it's ignorant, but it's true. The I4 that F makes in Spain is exatly the same as the ones built in Mexico and the ones built in Hiroshima. Exactly the same, material, specs, everything. The only difference is a small part of the intake depending on which package it will go into.

I don't like it much, either, but one has to face reality. Alfa can't afford to build their own engines anymore, so they have to get what they can. It sucks, yes.

Why not any other motor? More than likely, it has to do with volume- Alfa didn't choose the F motor as Cleveland was already close to capacity; Fiat does not have a V6, and more than likely, the GM V6 plants are not close to what they can really make (Opal is weak, few are getting the Caddy V6, and there are few North American GM cars that use the DOHC V6).
 

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Hmmmmm....I might succumb if Alfa was buying the new Corvette motor and dropping it into everything. :)

Best Regards,
John M
 

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Roadtrip said:
I liked it a lot better before globalization. I never would have bought an Alfa Romeo, I couldn't afford to own a computer with chips from Taiwan and parts from China, and I really wish I could spend 10x more on clothes than I do.
Fixed that for you... I liked it before globalization too - when was that again?
 

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I love alfa's, but you can't look at GM and not see some brilliance in their design, the push-rod v-8 of the 350, is capable of making 405 hp while still maintaining 30 mpg on the highway. Show me an alfa motor that will do that. Now sell me that motor for 7,000. YOU CAN'T do that with any other motor. It is cheap reliable efficient power. I can't see anything wrong with a motor that goes for 150,000 miles and gives you that type of power.

GM may not have the european flavor, but there was brilliance in their engine department

Richard
 

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One other note- how many Alfisti here would like to have a 156 2.0 TS??

That's a Fiat motor. There were cries of foul when Alfa started using the Fiat FIRE motor in '95, it's a cast iron block for crying out loud! But, somehow, people have accepted them... And it's not like Fiat having better quality than GM.

They will probably have unique heads, intakes, and exhausts, which should make them more of an Alfa....

Eric
 

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Here's an article of significance to this thread. It was posted before on this website but it is very appropriate for this discussion if you missed it earlier.

From Italiaspeed.com

"A product of the recently terminated Fiat-GM Powertrain joint venture, the new 3.2 litre V6 engine is built in Melbourne, Australia, alongside variants for various GM marques, and is supplied to Italy as a complete assembly to be fitted to cars on the production line.

The new V6 engine has been welcomed with mixed emotions by Alfa Romeo enthusiasts, despite the engine not yet having been trialed by the media.

Feedback from members who have driven the new Alfa Romeo 159 and Brera models fitted with the engine have, however, relayed a very positive note, expressing that the cars were characterized with ‘impressive performance and smoothness’. The engine is uniquely different from any of the other variants of the GM V6 engine range, and can be described as a true Alfa Romeo gem, with the majority of components having been redesigned around the bare block.

As described by the leader behind the technical development centre at Alfa Romeo, Paulo Massai, the block itself can be regarded as an “insensitive and inanimate piece of metal”, with the features that determine the true soul of the engine having been fully engineered from the ground up.

Skepticisms about the GM connotations of this engine should thus be swept under the carpet, as the engine features a brand new cylinder head, new liners, pistons, manifolds and injection system, to name but a few of the changes.

One of the issues closest to the heart of Alfisti will be how this new engine sounds, with the original Arese built V6 playing an almost trademark soundtrack. Alfa Romeo engineers worked day and night with the quest to achieve an engine note worthy of the Alfa Romeo V6 badge, and the presence of a twin tail-pipe exhaust system will certainly complement this nicely.

The so-called Twin Phaser engine uses the second-generation lean burn, direct fuel injection JTS system that was pioneered on the 2.0 litre 4-pot JTS engine in the successful Alfa Romeo 156. Reduced to practical figures, this technical jargon signifies that the new V6 engine will be 40% more economical, and produce 22 Nm more torque than the original Alfa Romeo V6 engine that it is replacing. Power output has now increased to 260 bhp.

Compared to the over-square Arese V6, which was appreciated for delivering generous mid-range grunt, the new 3.2 V6 has an almost unit bore-to-stroke ratio, which allows for 88% of torque to be available from 2000 rpm. In combination with the third generation all-wheel-drive Torson C system, the Alfa Romeo 159 and Brera V6 models will feature exuberant temperament, with little effort being required.

All of these improvements have to be summed up against critique, however, and in the case of the new V6 engine this comes in the form of under-bonnet looks. The original Alfa Romeo V6 was, quite simply put, a work of art. In the case of the new V6 engine though, the looks are not worth writing home about.

A future variant of the new V6 engine worth keeping an eye out for is the twin-turbo GTA model, which will feature the brand new UNIAIR variable valve technology, and boast a power output of 405 bhp and 680 Nm of torque."
 

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I don't think anyone would be confused by what I did - which is why I said fixed that for you. I was suggesting what you wrote lacked perspective - why don't you respond to that?
 

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Aghevli said:
From Italiaspeed.com

"A product of the recently terminated Fiat-GM Powertrain joint venture, the new 3.2 litre V6 engine is built in Melbourne, Australia, alongside variants for various GM marques, and is supplied to Italy as a complete assembly to be fitted to cars on the production line.

"
I think it's important to note the difference here---the engine is being built in a GM plant, ALONGSIDE other variants....in other words "Here's our design, and it fits into your basic engine block. Build it for us with your brand-spanking new tooling and robots so we have a repeatable, reliable engine, then send it to us in Italy and ONLY Italy, and charge us about half what it would have cost if we had built it here."

Think about it....pistons, liners, head, ect...all original Alfa. So what if the block is the same shape, or if it shares a crankshaft or an accessory? Last I checked, GM oil pumps don't curse a car into having soft suspension, lifeless steering, engines that sound like dying pigs, or dashboards that have dozens of elves playing yatzee inside them.

The reality is that it will still be an Alfa engine, unlike anything that GM builds, and it will be inexpensive enough that we may actually see them on this side of the ocean again. No one uses all original parts these days...hell, even our older Alfas outsourced a lot. How many people cried when they put Bosch fuel injection into an Alfa? I'm sure, had the internet existed back then, that there would be threads on how it won't be a real Alfa unless it has Webers or Spica. I consider my '87 Spider a real Alfa, and (imagine this), it STARTS easily, runs smoothly, never needs adjustment, and I've never had to do more than replace a cracked hose.
Let's not even go into the Lucas or Marelli electronics found in some of the older cars...wouldn't a REAL Alfa have everything designed in-house? What about the design of the car itself...what's this Pininnfarina crap all about--shouldn't Alfa create cars with their OWN designers??

These are all shades of grey (or gray...). As long as they preserve the experience of an Alfa (the driving dynamics, the sound, the feel of the interior), then it's still an Alfa. The basic parts they will be able to work with will enable them to do that (as long as the marketing nazis let them). It's not like they are going to directly drop in the lazy pushrod V6 from a Mailbu or something.

I wasn't going to post to this, but I just couldn't help myself :D

Don't want to rant about it, but just be realistic--it makes perfect sense to use up some of GM's excess factory capacity, and use their expensive and new manufacturing equipment as long as the finished product is the same (or better).

Cheers!

Stacy Faught
'87 Spider Quad (a real Alfa)
'78 Alfetta Sport Sedan (also, a real Alfa)
 

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Alfa, as a unique entity, died 30 years ago. It gradually became more and more a FIAT. Now, like Jaguar, Volvo, and many other makes, it has become an "international" car. Nothing good or bad about it; it's just the way things are...
 

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aaarrrrghhhh so friggin tired of the same things being said over and over in all of these threads........who cares, we'll see what happens and if we like it or not, for now I say use your energy for the tech threads and such.... this is just getting boring and redundant.
 

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Alfa, as a unique entity, died 30 years ago. It gradually became more and more a FIAT
Disagree. Alfa was still Alfa in 1975. The influence of FIAT started with the Type Four project (FIAT Chroma/Lancia Thema/SAAB 9000/164).

But who cares... It's all water under the bridge at this point...
 

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VerdeVeepster said:
aaarrrrghhhh so friggin tired of the same things being said over and over in all of these threads........who cares, we'll see what happens and if we like it or not, for now I say use your energy for the tech threads and such.... this is just getting boring and redundant.
amen!!!! all these complaints are getting anoying, we havent had a new alfa since 95 and yet they complain about them being FIAT's.

yesrterday i got a ride in a 164S, prolly the least Alfa in terms of alfaness since it shares its plattform with 3 other models, believe me, it was everybit as alfa as my milano
 

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VerdeVeepster said:
aaarrrrghhhh so friggin tired of the same things being said over and over in all of these threads........who cares, we'll see what happens and if we like it or not, for now I say use your energy for the tech threads and such.... this is just getting boring and redundant.
You have to realize that some of these threads provide fresh news for people who do not come here often or are new to the boards.
 

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Aghevli said:
You have to realize that some of these threads provide fresh news for people who do not come here often or are new to the boards.

its not so much the news but the continuous story of the last real alfa thing :confused:
 

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VerdeVeepster said:
aaarrrrghhhh so friggin tired of the same things being said over and over in all of these threads........who cares, we'll see what happens and if we like it or not, for now I say use your energy for the tech threads and such.... this is just getting boring and redundant.
Point taken, and not to be an *** :D , but....
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/search.php?searchid=107634

Should we start a new technical thread on posting pics of our cars, or what watches we're wearing? ;)

A little discourse never hurt anyone...unless it was on the digest, then SOMEONE would bound to get insulted, and then there'd be about 15 posts like the one quoted above, but in regards to the proper grammatical usage of "sit on this"...or something like that. :confused: But we're not the digest...

I feel your pain though...

Ted
 
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