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Fiat to shut Alfa engine plant, buy GM motors

http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0502/24/autos-97427.htm


Reported by Reuters: MILAN - Italian carmaker Fiat plans to close an Alfa Romeo motor plant near Milan and will instead power some of its sporty models with engines made by former partner General Motors, unions said on Tuesday.

Fiat's Powertrain unit announced its decision to workers, who reacted by throwing insults at Fiat Chairman Luca di Montezemolo.

"Powertrain told us today that Alfa Romeo engines will no longer be made in Arese. The assembly lines will be dismantled and the six-cylinder Alfa Romeo motor will be replaced with an engine GM produces in Australia," unionist Vincenzo Lilliu said.
 

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dretceterini said:
Another nail in the coffin. :( Sad....

It might be better for Alfa to simply go out of business...
... as I have been saying for years now :( :(

It is the only respectful thing to do.
Pete
 

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That sucks. :mad:

Best Regards,
John M
 

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look at the bright side...you'll be able to buy parts at kragen or pep boys any day of the week instead of having to wait a few days once you order a part.
 

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Azzurri GTV said:
Yeah but you no longer have that infamous italian engine!! You just have another plain crappy american engine that powers an italian body car.

Yes, but lets not forget the stigma that was attached to Alfa engines (and Italian mechanics in general) when they were sold in the USA. Perhaps the intoduction of a GM derrived engine in an Alfa may motivate Americans to think they cars are more practical and hence, easier to buy. This could generate a larger profit for Alfa as Americans may see more of pleasure in driving a more accessible engine wrapped in a beautiful Italian body (ex. Brera).

Remember, Many cars such as the Detomaso Pantera were still able to become classics in thier own right despite having American engines. And also, as Alfa becomes more and more successful they may still one day be able to produce their own engines. The marriage between Fiat and GM is already over; the engines are just a byproduct of that episode. It won't last forever.

Although I don't like the idea of Alfa ceasing engine production in their factories, I just wanted to present a possible bright side to the whole GM mess.
 

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Aghevli said:
Although I don't like the idea of Alfa ceasing engine production in their factories, I just wanted to present a possible bright side to the whole GM mess.
A brand without it's own engine does not last ... and if you do not find that completely insulting to Alfa Romeo then er, ... I do not know what to say.

Now a GM car with an Alfa Romeo engine makes sense, but to have an American company and Australian designers (for this engine, maybe) tell the masters of engine design, the Italians, how to do their job is just completely insulting!

I have visions of myself throwing bricks through these abortions of Alfa Romeos on the dealers yards :eek: :eek: :eek: ... so hopefully Australian Alfisiti's do not have watch their brand be fncked up the @rse. We already get that engine in a piece of **** called a Holden Commodore ... and heck it might be the best engine in the world, but it is not an Alfa Romeo engine.

They are just sucking the life out of the brand!
Pete's :mad: as :mad: can be.

[Later]Er, sorry for my little rant ... but I find this situation (which most of us knew about many years ago) very upsetting. I also find it sad that fellow Alfisti would rather see an Alfa Romeo continue on in production now matter how much of it's soul is ripped out and spat on. There comes a time when enough is enough, please FIAT close the doors ...
 

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PSk said:
A brand without it's own engine does not last ... and if you do not find that completely insulting to Alfa Romeo then er, ... I do not know what to say.
Land Rover = Buick Engines for a long time, now Ford (with BMW briefly)
Lotus = Isuzu, Toyota
Morgan = BMW Engines
Jaguar = Ford Engines
and plenty more... Additionally, there are the DSM cars and Starion/Conquests...

I agree that this is a sad announcement, but an engine does not a car make. I'm sure anybody who's driven an Elise can attest to the amazing levels that a plebian engine can attain when mated to the correct chassis.
 

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dretceterini said:
It might be a good...no even great car...but an Alfa without an Alfa engine is simply not an Alfa...at least to me....
Me too!

And a Jaguar with a Ford engine is NOT a Jaguar to me either, and as good as Lotus' are they will never be real cars to this person, until they make their own engine ... still kit cars :eek: (sorry that is too harsh, er, assembled components ;)).

Rover bought the Buick engine and then re-engineered it and then it became their own engine. I guess this is the same as what is happening to Alfa Romeo ... but like the good doctor said, it will no longer be an Italian designed by Alfa Romeo engine. The wrong things will be at the top of the design goal list ... and it will have no heart!

Pete's opinion
 

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There is a wonderful topic ''the goods on brera-159 engine'' READ IT!!!!

Also...

Btw, parts of camshafts, exhaust valves and other elements of the brand new petrol engines are designed the way they were in the old Alfa engines...
It's good because they are high-end solutions.
Fusi will report us with other info as they'll be available to him.

Translate this...interestic connection of new jts with alfa engines in 50-70 decate in the way they have been designed!

Certo che comunque ritornano indietro eh........... piacevole vedere come all'Alfa siano tornati a fare come i motori degli anni '50 dopo il troiaio fiat..............

Senti senti.......... il sistema di trascinamento degli alberi a camme viene effettuato tramite una catena.............. ma tu guarda!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ma non si era nostalgici???????????? Oltretutto oltre agli alberi, usano la catena anche per comandare i controrotanti / pompa acqua

Poi ancora............ "l'elevata potenza ha reso necessara l'adozione di valvole di scarico raffreddate al sodio".

Par di leggere che il JTS nuovo a 4 cilindri sia una rivisitazione della Giulia.
Interessante notare che han cambiato il sistema di distribuzione, infatti al posto dei bicchierini ora ci sono bilancieri con rullo.

Stesse robe anche sul sei cilindri.

Poi appena mi documento meglio, vi dico.
 

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If you can belive it, this was in the works for almost 10 years- Alfa has been shopping around for a V6 replacement. Why they didn't develop their own? No idea, but I know they were talking to a LOT of manufacturers about producing V6's for them.

Too bad for them.

No skin off of our backs- they may never come back to the US.

Eric
 

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daewoo-alfa....

So Alfa Romeo`s new premuim engine is a buy-in GM product. What a sad reflection on the state of individualism in this global corporate world. I am glad that the Jano`s and Merosi`s have passed before it came to this.
It may be high- tech, state of the art, accounts departement approved, but an ITALIAN ENGINE WITH SOUL it will never be!
My sources from the GM engine plant tell me that the `Alfa` version is just one more variation , and that the visual presentation (badge engineering) plus a few different mounting holes is about as different to the basic recipe as it gets.
I certainly hope that the engineering attitude has changed at GM- Holden since I was last involved with them. As a member of a company employed to problem solve for GM engineers, I once showed them a 105 Guilia crownwheel and carrier, pointing out the balance holes. They laughed, called it overdesigned, uneconomical , waste of resources. We then fixed their particular problem, a 500 gram out- of- balance diff carrier, by milling a huge hole opposite the one they had designed in for assembly purposes! A few weeks later their re-designed version came to us for checking; only 100 grams! Good enough for production.
In the local cars the 190kw version is red-lined at 5500rpm and several reports have suggested `soft` performance below 4000. This is a dual variable cam and intake length model.
I am also told that the blocks employ a cast-in thin wall liner that cannot be oversized or replaced, pistons are non removable from the conrods, and the rods themselves employ a broken split line and cannot be re- machined.
All this is common with their alloy V-8 engines which have had terrible on-going problems with oil consumption and bearings.
Ah- well , I guess we wont be restoring these in 30 years anyway!
So this is the way of the future? - An Italian car with its heart made by an American company in a far away Australian city by an anonomous, largely Asian refugee workforce, baptised with a Cross and Serpent and packed into a crate.
Even the Koreans can make their own V6s - Hyundai do... but wait , Daewoo dont.... they share the same engine as.... Alfa Romeo.
VS
 

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Disgusting. i mean yea the writing has kinda been on the wall, but this is just outrageous, sending work done by craftsman in italy to another country is just ridiculous to me. No offense to the aussies or anyone else..

I just had to make this up because im officially disgusted... maybe Luca will see it? hah wake up dude..
 

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dretceterini said:
It might be a good...no even great car...but an Alfa without an Alfa engine is simply not an Alfa...at least to me....
Just as anyone I find it insulting to suggest that Alfa, a company known to a large extent for its engines, will be using cookie-cutter GM units in the future...but does that make it really make a car like the Brera and 159 not an Alfa?

Relatively speaking, alot of cars with the Alfa logo can be called non alfa's to certain people. I remember people making similar accusations when Alfa changed its whole range to front wheel drive and began sharing platforms with Fiats among other brands. They were saying things like, "If its not RWD, then its not an Alfa..." Yet, there are many people here who own 147's, 156's, GT Coupe's, and many other FWD Alfa's. Is it right to call them non-alfa owners or have those people now accepted the FWD product as an Alfa Romeo? Have others? Also, you may consider that if many pre-1940's elitists were alive today they might say that any Alfa that is mass-produced or not taylored to the wealthiest people only is not a true Alfa either. It's all relative and up to what you want to see.

But like many, I am having a hard to accepting that there is GM engine in the Brera and 159. Looking back however, I do not believe that dramatic changes to this brand as a result of outside forces are anything new to it either. I just wanted to point out that "a true Alfa Romeo" can mean different things to a lot of people.
 

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Uh, except for companies like Ferarri, no engine is built by hand anymore.

The craftsman are the ones who build the robots that assemble engines.

Although, there are a handful of people at plants, most of the work is automated.... If you've ever gone though an FMEA class, or statistical process control, you'll know that people are terrible at making engines, especially in huge volumes.

Loose, wet liner engines are a major PITA to manufacture. From my experts here at F, Alfa would be lucky to be able to produce 100k engines in a plant, where most of our plants crank out engines that 10x that amount, with pretty darn good quality.

Lets be honset with ourselves- in terms of a DOHC V6, the Alfa version is far from state of the art anymore. What I find sad is that Alfa gutted their engineering staff to design their own engine. Oh, well. Life goes on.

Eric
 

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Everyone can vote with their wallets as far as I'm concerned. The market will decide if this is a good idea or not. The people on this board are too few in numbers to convince a large number of customers that it is not an Alfa engine etc. Just wait til the hybrid alfa that uses a toyota system or the electric/fuel cell alfa.
 

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Well, of course its still an Alfa...just not one I'd buy...but then again, when faced with the other cars on the market, which probably have something akin to a GM engine....well, I'd probably rather buy the Alfa....the idea of a pure anything is rather foreign to me.

Ted
 

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Im guessing the hand built engine comment was towards me? so Ill reply hah. When mentioning craftsman, of course the engine parts are not hand polished at Alfa, hah, but to just throw a comment out there as if an engine can be made anywhere and it'll be the same cuz its all done by robots is a little ignorrant. thats like saying East Coast and West Coast (USA) Pizza tastes the same because its made with the same ingredients, which is just plain wrong, its the water that changes the taste, the region in which something is created cannot be disregarded, otherwise all cars would look, drive, and feel the same.. and who would want that anyways? one man's great might be another man's crap.

Look at SAAB, a certain line of their cars are being built in Australia now? I believe, and a reviewer from R&D said it was a totally different car from the same model a year prior built in Sweden, good bad or indifferent.

With all that said, lets not forget all the italians in Arese who are just out of a job now, there's nothing to be said about that? just because it be done cheaper elsewhere? Why don't we start an AMG plant in Mexico too. because engines can be assembled anywhere. Oh wait those are hand built too, wow..
 
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