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Why won't my engine fit?

7K views 52 replies 16 participants last post by  DavidDriver 
#1 ·
I just bought this '75 and I can't seem to get the engine to fit.

What's wrong? Why won't it fit?

Any suggestions would be welcome. Thanks! :geek:

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#7 ·
Thank you all for the wonderful advice!

But I think this one might work a little better.

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But only after I've had a chance to make a few improvements.

I just bought this '75 with a hardtop and original A/C (from dealership, of course), last month, after it had been sitting for about 8 years. A few weeks of driving produced a coolant leak at the back of the timing-chain cover, just above the alternator. It's a shame to have to pull the engine to fix a simple gasket; but, stop-leak didn't really work. And what better excuse to improve the leak-down numbers and fix what I hope is just cracked rings (burning a little oil), on the #4 cylinder.

So.... new pistons & liners--not sure which kind yet--as well as new bearings. Has anyone had any experience with the JE 85mm piston liner set (10.5:1 or 11:1?) At nearly twice the cost of regular Motronic 10:1, I'm not sure it's worth it - especially if the mpg suffers too much. I've been getting 27mpg with it 'as is' (commuting 80+ miles/day), so I think the Motronic 10:1 might actually improve that. But not quite sure what a bigger bore would do. I'm curious to find-out. But, if it's not a significant-bump-in-power with little cost, than I'm not going to bother with it. I'd rather save the money and get a new dash and carpets.

Cheers!

Thanks for joining in my silly gag. :)
 
#8 ·
Has anyone had any experience with the JE 85mm piston liner set (10.5:1 or 11:1?) At nearly twice the cost of regular Motronic 10:1, ..... But not quite sure what a bigger bore would do. I'm curious to find-out. But, if it's not a significant-bump-in-power with little cost,
The "2 liter" Alfa engine actually displaces 1,962 cc's with a stock, 84mm bore. Increasing the bore to 85mm would increase the displacement to 2,009cc's, but that's only a 2.4% increase in displacement. Assuming the compression ratio remains about the same, I guess you'd increase hp by about 2.4%.

I assume these aftermarket pistons are made 1mm larger than stock to allow the used liners to be re-used by just taking .5mm off their walls to clean them up. They aren't sufficiently larger to give any significant increase in displacement.
 
#9 ·
it Takes a lot to do a swap like that. If you are asking for advice online on how to do the swap you should probably not do it. No one can answer that question since no one is there next to the car. You are taking a car that was engineered for a 4cyl engine and placing a much bigger heavier and torquier engine. Just saying takes lots of fabrication possible yes easy no✌
 
#10 ·
it Takes a lot to do a swap like that. If you are asking for advice online on how to do the swap you should probably not do it. No one can answer that question since no one is there next to the car. You are taking a car that was engineered for a 4cyl engine and placing a much bigger heavier and torquier engine. Just saying takes lots of fabrication possible yes easy no✌
Cheers!

Thanks for joining in my silly gag.
 
#13 · (Edited)
If you are trying to hot the car up a bit, the low hanging fruit is in the head. Probably better use of money for this application than fancy forged pistons.

If you were building a full-on race or high performance motor, you'd do both, but it doesn't sound like that's what this motor is about.

If you want to put a v8 in it, an LS is much more compact. It will fit ? In seriousness, V8 swaps have been done, but the problem is you won't find a rear end nearly as light weight as the Alfa rear end that can handle the torque of an American v8, so you ruin the handling. I suppose you could theoretically engineer an IRS that is light and could handle the power, but at some point it becomes no longer Alfa if you aren't preserving the original drivetrain or suspension.
 
#18 ·
Interesting offer! I had a similar offer from Tom Meade about 10 years ago with regards to my GT4. I was part of a group of guys who met regularly on Wed. nights in Westwood and we'd sit around, drink coffee and talk about cars - Ferrari's mostly.

"I have a 355 motor just sitting in my garage, do you want to put that in your GT4?", he asked. And he was genuinely serious! He wasn't doing anything with it, and thought putting it in my car sounded like a fun project.

I didn't decline; but, I never followed-up and then, unfortunately, he passed away a few years later. Tom was a character - to be sure! - but he was also a very nice man.
 
#15 ·
I had 2400.00 worth of work done on my head. I should know in a couple of weeks how this story turns out.
 
#16 ·
There a few good head builders out there. I had mine done by Steve Hannaford at Progressive Automotive who did really nice work for a reasonable price (I believe it's around $1,200 for a nice street performance head ready to bolt on, although mine is closer to a race head and is customized for forced induction and was a bit more). The downside is that most performance head guys are backlogged quite a bit. You may have trouble getting something done in less than 6 months (mine was longer than that). Centerline also does a basic street performance head (not prepped to quite the same degree) upon request. RJR does them and has even sold completed heads on the BB from time to time. Of course, you can also tackle yourself or find a local machine shop willing to do the work.

If you don't want to go through all of that, some basic port matching and cams will go a long way. A set of RJR cams will cost you the same as forged pistons and will do a lot more for you.
 
#17 ·
The 308 is for the car next to it in the garage. It was rebuilt less than 5,000 miles ago and the gearbox (the reason the engine is out - a bad 3rd gear, or so I thought), was redone by Eric Sanders.

But, if I was going to put a V8 in the Alfa, and I've discussed (well, joked more than discussed) this with Anthony Rimicci, I'd put a Hartley V8 in it and call it good. And, that would tuck very neatly into an Alfa Spider with a size that is (roughly): 18"(L)x18"(h)x20"(w @ top) and < 10"(w @ bot) . But, you'd still have to drive it "relatively" slow - at least, slow for 'that' motor.

But that's $25k better spend on something else too ...like maybe a Hawk Stratos.

I'll post more pictures (this weekend, I hope) when I figure out what's wrong with the 2000 motor, besides the coolant leak. I'm expecting to find cracked rings in #4. But hopefully nothing else.

Cheers!
 
#21 ·
Consider, after the cost of stuffing the 308 into your spider, the cost of having it smog checked in CA. I left there when they wanted to smog check the Conestogy wagon I came across the Plains in with ol' Gabby Hays. I can appreciate your fitting problem. A friend and I, wanting to stay Alfa/Fiat pure, purchased a Fiat engine to put into our spiders. 515 HP. Hann Marine in Bradenton, FL was putting two of them in 60' aluminum/carbon fiber pirate chaser boats they built. Russ also put a .50 CAL MG mount on the bow. Also keeping Alfa pure, a friend in St. Augusitne recently put a GTV6 engine in his '87 spider. sorry, no photo yet.
Land vehicle Vehicle Car Regularity rally Classic car
 
#28 · (Edited)
Consider, after the cost of stuffing the 308 into your spider, the cost of having it smog checked in CA. I left there when they wanted to smog check the Conestogy wagon I came across the Plains in with ol' Gabby Hays. I can appreciate your fitting problem. A friend and I, wanting to stay Alfa/Fiat pure, purchased a Fiat engine to put into our spiders. 515 HP. Hann Marine in Bradenton, FL was putting two of them in 60' aluminum/carbon fiber pirate chaser boats they built. Russ also put a .50 CAL MG mount on the bow. Also keeping Alfa pure, a friend in St. Augusitne recently put a GTV6 engine in his '87 spider. sorry, no photo yet. View attachment 1616887
NIce pitures! This will be the first Alfa motor I've torn-down. So we'll see....

So far, I'm working like an amature; on the floor; fighting with grease; little room; different sized nuts and a back that want's to do it tomorrow - or find an easier way to get this done! o_O My aching back!

The Harbor Freight adapter I bought doesn't fit, and actually ;), I knew it wouldn't. But, I'm masochistic and had to see how hard it was, before I had someone make an adapter; one guy in Oakland never got back to me and Jim Steck, who made the original is :confused: no longer available. Italiancarguy (Anthony) suggested attaching the bell-housing and then using that to bolt to. But that sounds like more hassle than I'm willing to get into. Maybe :unsure: I really should have pulled it with the gearbox after all? ....:cautious:... well anyway! ... So once I have just the block available, I can mount that to the existing stand from the rear studs. In the meantime, I can go to Harbor Freight and get a adjustable roll around table, one like the 308 motor is on. :geek:

I'll keep it on the hoist, so I can lower it and keep it stable while working with it on the table, (I like that! "stable on the table") then once I have the pan off, I'll have a flat surface to remove the head! Then it goes on the stand where I can turn it, to do the pistons, liners, rings and bearings. Then back on the table... etc., etc., etc.

Pictures coming!

But first, .....:coffee: ....:geek: .....:coffee: .....:coffee: .....:coffee:

The only catch I found was that I need to remove all of the stuff like: alternator, alternator pully, water-pump, ....and pully, cover for the SPICA injection, :eek: SPICA ! .. then, and only then, will the last nut on the right-side motor mount be be accessible for removal! ...and I can remove the pan, to begin this process!

I swear, the only thing easier would be that engine-bay stretcher from Harbor Freight!

:p -:ROFLMAO:=:LOL:=:ROFLMAO:- .........:giggle:


:cool:

...hence, my aching back!
 
#22 ·
In addition to the supplemental costs of an engine bay stretcher and Vaseline, you should also consider the recurring cost of having your spider smog checked there in CA. I left El Dorado when they wanted to smog check the Conestogy wagon I came across the Great Plains in with Gabby Hays. I appreciate your fitting problem. Staying Fiat/Alfa pure a friend of mine & I purchased a Fiat engine to insert into our '64 & '87spiders. 515 HP. Hann Marine was putting them in 60' aluminum/carbon fiber pirate chasing boats. Russ also put a 50CAL machine gun mount on the bow. Another friend, an Alfa purist up in St Augustine, recently fitted a GTV6 engine into a '87 spider. Sorry, no photo yet.
 

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#30 ·
I have done at least a few Alfa 2 liter engines with the cheapie engine stand from HF, bolting the block conventionally to the end of the block Not a side mount. When I first saw the side mount I was quite surprised. Very different
best of luck, but definitely get off the floor
 
#31 ·
Done!

Small roll-around table:
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Hoist still attached, lessen the load on the table:
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This is how far I got on the floor before my back said, "No more!":
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No real problem getting the ones on this side off:
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But this side, is another matter:
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Specifically this one, which requires the SPICA to come off:
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I could get a short socket and that would probably do it. But the SPICA is going to have to come off with the head anyway, and I think there are just two bolts (on the bottom) that hold it on. There may be another, but I doubt it would be any more difficult to get to than the bolt on the motor-mount. And I might as well take it of with the intake now, as anytime; in fact, I think it might be next. And the only thing the mount is blocking is one nut holding the side of the pan on. So, here goes.... :rolleyes:
 
#35 · (Edited)
Had to revisit one of my old threads from 2005!


My '84 had a 36mm nut and on the new (old) '75 (SPICA), it's a 38mm.
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2005. That must have been when I did the water-pump.

I really miss that car. It had between 300k-400k on it. I used it as a daily
driver for years. At one point, (3-1/2 years) commuting from Los Angeles
to Alameda in the East Bay, when I worked at C&H Sugar.

That seems ages ago now... I sold this car in 2014-15 to finish a remodel on
a house bought and torn-down to studs and then rebuilt. ...that was a sad day.

Seems I'm always tearing things apart and then putting them back together
again. :unsure: unless their name starts with an "F" :cautious:


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#37 ·
I’ve never understood the side-mount mentality on Alfa engine rebuilds. Is there something unique about Alfa that requires that they not be hung from the bell housing side on an engine stand?


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#39 · (Edited)
I’ve never understood the side-mount mentality on Alfa engine rebuilds. Is there something unique about Alfa that requires that they not be hung from the bell housing side on an engine stand?
You can certainly attach an Alfa engine to a generic stand at the bellhousing face. And doing it that way doesn't require any custom-made parts.

But there are some advantages of side mounting such as:

- You can orient the engine "nose up" or "flywheel up", which simplifies installing parts like the front cover and flywheel/clutch.

- You can install the flywheel/clutch while the engine is still on the stand.

SkiBum said:
Got an air impact gun?
With the engine out of the car - but the flywheel still bolted to the crankshaft - you don't need an impact gun to remove the front pulley. Just get an inexpensive air-cooled VW flywheel lock - which fits an Alfa - and use a breaker bar on the front pulley nut.

- Oh yea, one more benefit of a sidemount: Can't use one of these flywheel locks when the engine is bolted to a stand at the bellhousing face.

 
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