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Discussion Starter #1
Hello Guys;

I was too lazy to read the hundred pages and this subject has probably been treated in the past, so sorry for that.

My question, which plugs do you use instead of those amazingly costly
NGK PFR6B :eek:?

My engine is used on track hardly i want colder plugs but don't need the
100 K Km life time !

Any advice is welcome.
Thanks ;)
Fred
 

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You can get them for about $8.95 each, not outrageous, but clearly pricey; however, they will last a long time for no worries. So for the street, they are not bad. One thought, if you use the car on the track at full load and rpms, you might not want to risk an inexpensive plug. Just a thought.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Del,

Thank you for posting. Could you tell me where i can find these spark plugs for this bargain price !?
 

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I myself have put the NGK BKR6EIX (iridium) in my 164Q and have been extremely happy with them. I plan on doing the same for the LS later this summer. Here is a link to some NGK PFR6B’s that are reasonably priced. $8.74
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?catalog=100&partnum=3500&a=FR100-3500
At check out use Discount Code: 690063621007, which is good for 5% off total purchase till August 14, 2007.
In the future if you know part # of item your looking for use (Froogle):
http://www.google.com/products
Let the web work for you ;) Happy motoring!
 

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NGK BKR6EIX (iridium)

Hands down the best. Good for 12V S model as well

Bosch +4's :rolleyes: Waste of money IMO

Jason
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Mates
Thank you for your help, plugs are now ordered at Rockauto (didn't find the code area to obtain the 5% discount).
Hope they are good with overseas shipments !!
 

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Mates
Thank you for your help, plugs are now ordered at Rockauto (didn't find the code area to obtain the 5% discount).
Hope they are good with overseas shipments !!
I'm so sorry, I should have been more specific. Enter the discount code in box next to "How Did You Hear About Us?". (Located near the bottom of page.) Then Press the (set) button to the right of that. Page will refresh and show total discount.
 

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What is funny here is that the BPR6EIX (that's Echo India X-ray) seems to be the same as the NGK 6637, which RockAuto will happily sell you for much less than they will the BPR6EIX.

NGK Part # 6637 {Standard Plug #BPR6EIX} $6.58
vs.
NGK Part # BPR6EIX {Iridium IX #75093} $9.08

The cross-index info I get is that the 6637 is an Iridium plug, same as the other. Advance Auto sells them for $6.99 or $10.99, depending upon what you call it in their online catalog, and the counter clerks in the local store promise me that they are the same thing and show up only at $6.99 in _their_ in-store system.

I decided to order a dozen 6637's, half for one of the S cars and half for the Milano Verde into which we'll be putting 10.0:1 pistons in a week or two. (The other S car is running a mix of Autolite APP64 and Lodge plugs.) I could have saved a few $ through RockAuto, but I decided I would do business more locally in this instance. I really like it when the auto parts folks come up with what I need when I need it, and in my local store, they are all good hard-working folks.
 

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The difference in some of these plug is of course the material of the tip and center electrode. That makes a difference in the price. I use the double plat PFR6B for the 24v (Q) and the S, and Bosch single plat for the Milano. All seem to work just fine for their application, the 24v (Q) and S seeming to require one stage colder plug than the B, L, and Milano in order to keep from burning.
 

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I'd guess that comes from the higher combustion temps resulting from the marginally higher compression, exacerbated by the higher manifold pressures to which Q/S drivers are prone.

But the folks at the counter (and on the internet) say that for NGK, 6637==BPR6EIX. Curious. Perhaps useful. Maybe a changeover in labeling coincident with a materials price hike? But at a few milligrams, the difference between Ir or Pt or Cu shouldn't make much real difference in mfr. cost.

michael
 

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Similar to Del, I use the PFR6B for my 2.5’s after initially using the quads, which Jason has already attested (are junk). No Problems so far, but then I do give them “Italian” tune up’s whenever I drive them. :D As for the NGK-BKR6EIX and BPR6EIX they are essentially the same plug. Thanks MrT for the tip! The only difference being is that the BKREIX are 5/8 in. and the BPREIX are 13/16 in. Same gasket, 14mm thread, .750 reach, and copper electrode core material. So if you’re like most of us that have assorted plug tools, by all means save some money when and where you can ;).

BKR6EIX NGK-6418
BKR6EIX-11 NGK-3754
BPR6EIX NGK-6637
BPR6EIX-11 NGK-3903
11 are wider gap plugs 1.1mm
 

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Jason is right about the Bosch plugs---
I think I got maybe 2,000 miles on my Bosch platinum before they started to seriously foul. Quickly switched to the NGK-- more money.
But, cheaper in the long run

Purchased my NGK-BKR6EIX from www.sparkplugs.com for $6.95 each
 

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AlfaAddict: I think I wasn't the one who posted the BK/BP size issue. Jason may have been the source, and Alfisto Steve posted it at least once. I have been reluctant to go to the 5/8" hex size simply from conservatism -- minimal change. The stock tools work with the 13/16" BPx plugs and I don't have any reason to complicate my life.

I do have a 5/8" plug socket, but it's for lawn mowers and other small engines with small plugs. If your tools work better with the 5/8" plugs in the Alfa V6, then go for it. Otherwise, I'm sticking with the 13/16" plugs until forced to do otherwise. I did find that my 13/16" plug socket and extensions were not very friendly with the rear head on the 164, but I also found that the plug wrench in the toolkit worked like gangbusters. So I have no incentive to change.

Michael
 

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Here's the link to how to read NGK spark plug part number.

"BK" and "BP" both have the same 14mm thread diameter and the same 19mm ("E") thread reach so they both can fit into the spark plug hole with no problem. As mentioned, "BK" has 5/8" hex size and "BP" has 13/16" hex size. Another difference is "BK" has ISO stem length which is slightly shorter than the "BP".

24V engine has smaller spark plug well holes and the coils sit on top of the spark plugs. "BK" is the right size for 24V. "BP" likely will not fit that well!

For 12V engines, I would choose "BP" since it is the same size as the Lodge spark plug and the factory spark plug tool works very well with this size. But "BK" also will fit since it is smaller and a little shorter. One has to use 5/8" spark plug socket and push the plug wire in a little since the stem is slightly shorter.

Heat range: NGK specifies heat range "6" for 24V and 164S but "7" for 164 B&L. I don't quite understand their logic since higher compression already tends to make the engine combustion hotter so a higher heat range might actually increase the tendency to have "ping". Anyway, I think both "6" or "7" should work. I would say use "6" if the engine uses oil - a hotter tip might burn off some deposit and reduce fouling.

I suggest buy the spark plugs with the correct gap of 0.025". The wider gap ones (e.g. BKR6EIX-11) have too wide a gap and will most likely increase misfirings. These plugs are hard to re-gap without a special tool!

I just picked up some BPR6EIX ($6.99 each) locally from PepBoys this afternoon for our new spiders. The reason I went there was to pick up some Shell Spirax HD 80W/90 gear oil (cleaned out all they have over there - 7 quarts :D). They didn't have the BPR7EIX so I shall see how well the "6" heat range work out!
 

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Bob,

I never did find a local source for Shell Spirax. I'll have to check PepBoys now.

Michael
Just for the record the BP may fit but the BK does too without an issue.


Shell Spirax? Where did that come from? Another post between you two?
Pepboys carries it, If you need some let me know I carry it too.
Jason
 

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Jason, it was an off-topic response to BobC's post #14 above, where as a parting comment he mentioned his purchase of the entire 7qt stock of Spirax at his local PepBoys' store.

The BK and BP may both fit, but I was baring my soul and confessing to the world that I don't like to change things dimensionally from stock unless there is a good reason. My good reason could have been difficulty in removing the 13/16" plugs from the rear head, but this was made unnecessary by the tool kit plug wrench working well.
 

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Jason, it was an off-topic response to BobC's post #14 above, where as a parting comment he mentioned his purchase of the entire 7qt stock of Spirax at his local PepBoys' store.

The BK and BP may both fit, but I was baring my soul and confessing to the world that I don't like to change things dimensionally from stock unless there is a good reason. My good reason could have been difficulty in removing the 13/16" plugs from the rear head, but this was made unnecessary by the tool kit plug wrench working well.
Ahh ok. I thought you where on the wrong post or something?:p

I just use a 16mm spark socket without any issues with the BK, so BP should be a breeze as well. Anyways point, they both work. They are a great plug and I have been using it will great results.
Ciao!
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Plugs are now received here in France from Rockauto.
Super service for good price.
They won a new customer !
I thought it would be good to share as we oftenly see complains and no good comments.
 

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My car wasn't start for 2 months and there's not Alfa dealership in my province(Alberta, Canada), only 2 Alfa mechanics but both are about 120 miles away from my city.
Alfa still a mystery here, so no parts at all.

Since lots of parts for Saab 9000 works on LS models I decided to comper the spark plugs and measure them. It was just the same and works well on my LS. No more dificulties to start as 1.1/2 month before it stop.

Champion Platinum for Saab 9000 -95 to 00 Made in USA $5 each
 
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