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Discussion Starter #1
I`ve come across a `63 Giulia Sprint in restorable condition here in NZ and am trying to work out what to offer for it being fair to the vendor (a very old acquaintance). Certainly requires restoration as rusted badly around boot floor and rear valance, and r/h A pillar base and inner kick panel. Hasn`t gone for years but all appears to be all there. It is also LHD which is the opposite to what we have normally over (here being RHD)
These cars are very rare in NZ but I`m aware I can buy from the USA as certainly more numerous over there.
What would you chaps in USA, Europe and Australia pay for a 101 Sprint in similar condition?

Richard J

`65 Giulia Ti 1600, `69 GT Junior, `74 GTV 2000, `76 Alfetta GTV, `77 Alfetta GTV, `84 GTV6
 

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I paid $1200 for mine back in August. It was without an engine or gearbox. The seller claimed both were recently rebuilt but I don't take anyones word about such things and would just as soon go through the pieces myself.
 

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I`ve come across a `63 Giulia Sprint in restorable condition here in NZ and am trying to work out what to offer for it being fair to the vendor (a very old acquaintance). Certainly requires restoration as rusted badly around boot floor and rear valance, and r/h A pillar base and inner kick panel. Hasn`t gone for years but all appears to be all there. It is also LHD which is the opposite to what we have normally over (here being RHD)
These cars are very rare in NZ but I`m aware I can buy from the USA as certainly more numerous over there.
What would you chaps in USA, Europe and Australia pay for a 101 Sprint in similar condition?

Richard J

`65 Giulia Ti 1600, `69 GT Junior, `74 GTV 2000, `76 Alfetta GTV, `77 Alfetta GTV, `84 GTV6

If everything is there, offer him something like $3000 US.
 

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I have no idea of how much of a premium/discount to place on it due to:
- it is rare (750/101's were never sold new in NZ, true?)
- the steering wheel is on the "wrong" side for NZ roads
- being a Yank, I know nothing of vintage car values in NZ

So, ignoring all of the above, if it were for sale here in California, the rust you describe would suggest a pretty deep discount. I feel that dretceterini's number, $3,000, would be near the top of the range for a complete car with what sounds like pretty serious rust issues. The rusted trunk floor doesn't sound that bad (they all have that), but the "rear valance, and r/h A pillar base and inner kick panel" sounds pretty severe. And of course, once you get the paint off of it, you will find a LOT more rust.

As Pathung wrote, pictures would help. Also mentioning whether it is a Veloce or normale, and the condition of the interior.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
By the way, here is the ID plate, I forgot to post. Is there another ID plate on the car? as it doesn't appear to have a chassis number?

Richard J
 

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A car that sits and is allowed to rust away will always require a substantial amount to restore and this obviously devalues the car substantially. Nonetheless, this car doesn't look like it was abused, so it is not a bad place to start a restoration. I would offer him what would be considered an offer on the generous side, in your part of the world. I find that friendships are worth something and given the non-running condition of the car, it shouldn't take too much to land the offer in generous territory. This car, IMHO, is worth at least $3k and if the seller found this figure attractive, I wouldn't hesitate to shake hands on this price. If it is complete, and the original parts can be refurbished, and the seller believes it is worth more, I would consider up to an additional $2k.

Best regards,
 

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The chassis number is stamped into the firewall on the passenger's (right) side in the upper corner of the engine compt. Should also be stamped on a plate on the inside of the hood, but that might be long gone.

Andrew
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Missed the chassis no. unfortunately but did look there Andrew. The owner has a weakness for gold and as you can see from the firewall pic there is a generous coating there. It sports the famous gold wheels also this chap is famous for. He has 30 or so cars and most sport gold wheels.
Thanks to all sofar -its very helpful and helps gel what I was thinking. Am I right in thinking the body structure is a lot simpler than 105`s, 116`s? It appears they might be an easier car to restore.

Richard J

`65 Giulia Ti 1600, `69 GT Junior, `74 GTV 2000, `76 Alfetta GTV, `77 Alfetta GTV, `84 GTV6
 

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Richard J
I'll be the voice of dissention here - I don't see any value over $1300 NZDollars.

1) The Sprint is in "project" condition ... idle for years; unknown mechanical condition; parts are missing in the viewable pictures. Restorable...YES, but over 1000 hours of labor and in excess of $13,000.NZD would be invested to restore it to original condition.

2) It's a LHD car in a RHD country; annoying to drive in traffic and definitely less local buyers if offered for sale.

3) It's a Normale with no special history; one could be bought in top condition elsewhere and imported for less money than this one will cost to restore.

Just my Opinion.
 

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I go along with GTD, especially now that I've seen the pictures. That rust in the trunk lid, and in the valence behind the rear bumper is BAAAADDDDD. Any car this rotted through the paint is going to have a LOT more damage beneath the paint.

One strategy would be to buy this car because it is fairly complete, and a second one that might be missing parts, but have a less-rusted body.

The cost of restoring a rough car is always more than the cost of acquiring a finished vehicle. The rougher the starting point, the greater that cost differential will be.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Yes I`ve learnt before it is better to buy the best you can and that what you see re body imperfections is only the tip of the iceberg. My oldest son (has the Alfavirus also) who is 19 would be the purchaser but I would be doing most of the work. He`s lucky I can do most things, including panel fabrication, myself but time is the other factor. I tend to spend too much time on cars already although he is looking to the future and 101`s aren`t thick on the ground in NZ.
I really appreciate everybody`s input-I consider myself an Alfa expert but a little lost with these cars as we generally never see them.

Richard J
`65 Giulia Ti 1600, `69 GT Junior, `74 GTV 2000, `76 Alfetta GTV `77 Alfetta GTV, `84 GTV6
 

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Richard

I'm going to "second" what GTD & Jay have said, we've got five of these Sprints & only one has a bad body, sadly it's the most valuable, being a '58 Veloce. This will be a 1000hr+ restoration.

The first large warning bell is that rusted "lip" around the boot area, it's more than just a "lip" as it is actually 3 pieces of metal sandwiched together:

1.) The visible top is the trailing edge of the rear deck area.
2.) The next layer is the trailing edge of the boot floor
3.) The bottom layer is the folded edge of the rear valance.

The words "Bertone" & "Rustproofing" or "Seam Sealing" do not actually go in the same sentance. To fix this, you will have to *split* the rear of the bodywork, the lower valance will have to be removed, the remains of the boot floor will have to be removed & the "lip" on the upper & lower valance will have to be re-fabricated & welded back together, complete with the new boot floor you have bought / made - of course this time you will use seam sealer on the joint.

Boot lids are another favourite rust spot, unlike the Spiders they are not generally interchangeable, seeing as Bertone was still hand-fettling these cars right up to the bitter end in '65. Size / shape & curvature all vary from one car to another & even getting your own boot lid to fit can be tricky.

Thirdly, the floors are toast, they all are, so don't worry, you can either cut & shape the replacements yourself, or buy from Italy.

Fourthly the sills are also toast - you will have to do repairs here - you did mention one A pillar was bad, the other will also need work.

Fifthly the doors will have rust in the bottoms - the (missing) trim strips were held on with mild steel bolts...... through the bottom of the doors....... you get the picture.

Lastly, the bumpers are missing, as are the grilles, these don't come cheap, neither does a full re-trim.

$1300NZ is a good starting point.

On the plus side, 1600 105 series mechanicals fit, the brakes & suspensions are dead easy & there are enough of us who have them & know how to fix them, BUT are you willing to invest the 1000 hrs & $10 000+NZ to do it properly. They are stunning when finished, but scruffy if done incorrectly.

Concept 101, (Dennis), in Sweden is rebuilding a '63 Giulia & he also has some deep-seated rust issues.

We're about 300 hours deep into the '60 Sprint, and still have to do some very minor cut & shut repairs on the very good body. I guess we'll be in for 750 hours when it's finished.

We're also a father & son team who rebuild our own cars.

Ciao
Greig
Sunny South Africa
2 x '57 Sprints
1 x '58 Sprint V
1 x '60 Sprint
1 x '61 sprint
2 x '60 Spiders
Some 105's
Some others
 

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Regarding the serial number

These pics may help in locating the serial number on the right side of the firewall/bulkhead - beneath the wiring grommet/above the ventilation tube.
The first pic is a 750 chassis showing the 5-didgit Bertone ID number, flanked by stars, stamped into the body. This number bears no reference for ALFA identification.
 

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Also mentioning whether it is a Veloce or normale, and the condition of the interior.
There was no such thing as a Giulia Sprint Veloce. They all came with a single Solex.

While the body parts are the same as the Giulietta Sprints, most of the interior pieces are not common to the Giulietta's so make sure they are intact and usable. There were only about 3000 of the 63's made.

Chuck
59 Sprint
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Once again thank you. Greig (AlfisiSA) I had an inkling the construction at the rear was how you described. That doesn`t faze me. I saw, and you`ve backed it up that the boot lid was far more difficult.
GTD-Alfista Sapien you`ve clarified where to find that chassis number-aren`t photos great. Unfortunately the car is 168KM`s(100 plus miles) away so I can`t recheck the car-it would have been great to get build date from Alfa Storico. I do know original colour was white though.
Items like missing bumpers and the stainless trim just under the doors are missing-the side grilles aren`t. How hard are these missing items to get overseas?
Tomorrow I hope to have a word regarding what we are prepared to offer to the owner via his wife. I have a sneaking suspicion that we are going to disappoint. They do need to sell though as they are moving from the farmlet they now inhabit to a home in the nearby town with only room for 6 cars -and I am told none of them will be Alfas-his first love has always been Lancias so about 20 cars will have to find new homes.

Richard J
`65 Giulia Ti 1600, `69 GT Junior, `74 GTV 2000, `76 Alfetta GTV, `77 Alfetta GTV, `84 GTV6.
 

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You know, we may be coming at this problem from the wrong direction.

alfavirusnz originally posed the question as "how much should I pay for this car?". But, all of us who live in other currencies, and who may not be familiar with the vintage car market in NZ, have a hard time in coming up with a meaningful figure.

So, the question that we are answering - perhaps a better question - is: "should alfavirusnz buy this Giulia Sprint at all, regardless of price?". Most of us seem to be hinting "no" in our replies, but alfavirusnz doesn't seem to be fazed.

Frankly, if you are going to buy a car in this condition, it really doesn't matter WHAT you pay for it. By the time the car is restored and on the road, the acquisition cost is going to be a tiny percentage of the total project budget. Even if the prior owner pays you to take it away, it won't reduce the total cost appreciably.

alfavirusnz asked: "Items like missing bumpers and the stainless trim just under the doors are missing - How hard are these missing items to get overseas?" Well, they certainly aren't easy to find. This sort of thing turns up on ebay from time to time. Putting out the word to the 750/101 group on YahooGroups may turn up something. Shipping bumpers to NZ will no doubt be exhorbitant, but nothing seems to frighten alfavirusnz, so what the heck - go for it! Restoring that car will certainly be a character-building experience.
 
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