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What type of paint should I use?

11K views 38 replies 20 participants last post by  Aggie57 
#1 ·
I’ve had my ‘73 GTV for 34 years, at first I used it as my daily driver but after a few years I started what turned out to be a very lengthy restoration. I did major panel work (new nose, inner and outer left front guard/fender etc). I did the whole rotisserie thing, painted it inside and underneath myself, rebuilt the engine blah blah blah.

But then it sat for years while I got busy with other projects and businesses. Now I’ve sent it to a recommended panel shop to get painted and visiting them this week they want to paint it in a modern base / clear coat rather than the solid two-pack of the day, and which I used for all the work done to date.

I’m sure modern paints are better in many ways but I’m uncertain about it in this case. The car is intended as a good weekend toy, well restored and presented but not a garage queen or concours prepared. I’d like it to feel and look like a car of its period.

So I’m interested in other people’s thoughts and experiences with the type of paint to use.
 
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#4 ·
I used this on my Piper Yellow 73 GTV :
http://www.tcpglobal.com/docs/ppgdccp.pdf

It doesn't have the "surface shine" that some 2 stage colors seem to have. It's also easier to blend if a repair is needed. It's not cheap-will cost the same as good base and clear. It polishes to a nice high gloss.
If you choose a 2 stage, a quality clear is important for maximum UV protection.
 
#5 · (Edited)
It doesn't have the "surface shine" that some 2 stage colors seem to have. It's also easier to blend if a repair is needed.
Alister:

I would skip the "modern base / clear coat" on a 45 year old Alfa. That would be like installing 21" wheels, just because modern cars use them.

It isn't period correct, it won't look right, and as aralfa8589 points out, single stage paint will be easier to work with - an important consideration when you plan on owning the car for another 45 years.
 
#7 ·
I'd certainly go base/clear system. It's just better in every way. Much of the "blame" that new paint systems get for looking different than the original has far less to do with the paint itself and far more to do with the prep. You're probably spending more on the paint alone than you originally paid for the whole car. You expect the panels to fit right, flat and smooth with sharp body lines and consistent gaps, right? You expect the shop to spend hours prepping the shell rather than minutes that the factory spent. That's what's going to make the most difference in how the paint looks.

Base/clear is far more durable, easier to maintain, doesn't fade and is much easier to repair.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Base/clear is far more durable, easier to maintain, doesn't fade and is much easier to repair.
Admittedly I am not a paint specialist; what I wrote reflects the advice that my paint & body guy (who I highly respect) gave me when he was working on my Sprint GT.

I can believe that base/clear provides greater durability and sun protection. However, most classic cars aren't left out in the bright sun day after day, so I don't see that as a deciding factor.

One of my painter's reasons for recommending a single stage system was the ease of blending in the event of repairs. So I'm puzzled by the statement above that base/clear is easier to repair. I would think that it would be tough to blend the final (clear) coat without painting the whole panel.

65Sprint said:
I can't imagine why anyone would want to try to replicate 45 year old paint chemistry
I don't believe I suggested using 45 year old paint chemistry; heck, you can't buy or legally use high VOC paints here in California (yea, I know - Aggie57 is in Australia). My point was simply that clear coats weren't used when these cars were new, so won't look correct. Perhaps only an automotive paint maven would notice, but it seems like an easy thing to get right when doing a restoration.
 
#9 ·
I'm in alfajays corner. I have a 66gtv that...finally.. got painted in the original bianco spino specs. I got the original paint info from Marco Fazio. No clear, single stage from Dupont Nason line.If yours was no clear single stage back in the day , I would stay with it. My alfa wont be totally original, however I wanted to use the original paint code to give it a feeling of 1966 I don't know if your undercarriage was painted the same as the body. Mine was, so everything was one colour, although my painter did some overspray that needs to be cleaned up.
I think the paint on its own will be at least $1,000 or more so take your time on what path your going down.
Todays modern paints are probably better, but I doubt that single stage will fade away any time soon. I would definitely CAR COVER your alfa re the Aussie BLAZING sun. That sun will fade anything in 3. 6 seconds!

Good Luck
 
#12 · (Edited)
105 series Alfas with single colors (i.e., non metallic) were painted in single stage enamel. It was very high quality paint and, if properly maintained, can last a very long time indeed. My '72 Super is a very original car and---46 years later---still retains its original (most of it anyway) Rosso Amaranto single stage enamel paint. Even if it's old, as my paint certainly is, if the enamel paint is in good shape (not cracked or severely weathered) it can be restored. About a year ago I used Meguiar's products to work on my paint. The results were spectacular, if I do say so myself. In the 9 years that I've owed the car, I've picked up some dings that I want to get fixed. I intend to find a shop that can shoot single stage enamel and which will understand my desire to keep the original paint. Lot's of restoration shops want to quote a price for a ubiquitous "bare metal re-spray" which is often neither needed or desired. I intend to stay away from those shops.
 
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#13 ·
I had my car painted by a very capable shop that does an equal mix of prewar american, euro exotica and full custom of all sorts. While my car was in the shop there were a handful of beautiful model t fords, a Lamborghini 3500 heading to Amelia and 68 camero, among others. Which is to say I trust my body man's abilities and breadth. He knew I was fussy about originality because I didnt trust his sprayouts of Bluette and so went to the Glassurit dealer myself to buy a sample. He sprayed it out, it looked great. The samples from glasurit was single stage. He did a lot of debating with me back and forth on a variety of aspects of the resto but he looked at me like I was on drugs for even considering single stage. I had glassurit match the formula to two stage (the factory does this with a letter it took a day) and we resprayed. Looked very very similar verging on identical. I get spasms when I see Alfas painted in the wrong gloss levels or non period colors and I can tell you a high quality two stage looks (and performs) very well. I would not blink before recommending it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#16 · (Edited)
It's not clear exactly how that contest was won or why cars and coffee is a shameful thing. Care to elaborate?

And maybe let's take as a point of departure that there is no clear winner to this contest, its a question of what suits the owner's priorities.

I should have elaborated on my position. I came into the paint shop suggesting single stage - it appealed to me for being original, simple and a tad cheaper (not much). My body man asked me (without judgement) if I was going to drive the car. Many of his clients do not, or barely do. I said yes I hope to roll the odometer over but I am still a major originality grouch and did not want it looking like a Hertz rental car. After seeing what an extremely high quality base/clear looks like (I wince when I think of my Glassurit bill) I was a believer. Sure enough, during re-assembly of the car it has acquired a few blemishes that I am happy can be easily repaired with base/clear. Not saying single stage is unrepariable we know that is not the case, but the whole package worked for me.
 
#17 · (Edited)
i think your initial suggesting for single stage was spot on. your body man i assume is a paint man not an Alfisti


im not sure why the cars and coffee crowd is obsessed with shinny objects.. like monkeys thats what the crowd gravitates too lol. i can poke fun at it cuz my co-worker start this national craze with original at crystal cove with a few buddies a couple of miles from his home. seem like there has been a backlash for overly restored polished looking cars in last decade or two. most seasoned Monterrey enthusiast seem to be appreciating unrestored original or original looking cars.

kidding aside, its not about the quality of the paint or the durability. 2 stage paints are typically better in both regards as many has mention and why nearly all modern cars are painted this way. however its about getting the car to look or feel close to its original state.

as the paint ages the single stage patina looks proper unlike 2 stages paints. a clear coat also acts like reflective element that gives it the wet shinny look. if you look closely you can see difference in were the pigment is below this clear coat layered surface. single stage is more like deep luster that of an old bowling back that dosent have this clear layer in turn isnt and shinny or will have that wet look. you can see this easily on colors like red or black.

i have signal stage on my old gtv painted back in the 91 when EVERYONE wonder why i didnt use 2 stage. ive got lacquer single stage on my other non alfa classic. both are red and if i could i would use lead paint. its difficult to explain the beauty of the paint cars ive seen in italy painted in red with lead. needles to say they were spectacular.

yes its personal preference at this point you can update various components of the car to improve the mechanicals, saftey, comfort, appearance etc that are better and and more durable as you turn your odo over.

one can go to your local autoparts store and replace your vaguely speedo.... ops i meant veglia speedo with autometer that is miles better for a peanuts. hell you dont even need to purchase anything and can even use your iphone with a gps app and use it as a HUD unit for a speedo. but you wont find these things on my classic alfa.

just adding my 2 cents for what its worth
 
#18 ·
Given the unreliability of clear coats, at least what I've seen on Alfa 164s and the apparent problems on the new Giulia, I think I would avoid them. I had my 91S painted without and it turned out really great, still fine 5-6 years later. I do protect the LS clear coat by keeping the car garaged all of the time, except for the very occasional trip. The Milano of course didn't have one, so it is fine, and looks proper for that year and car, just needs a clay and wax job.
 
#19 ·
Is the process used to prepare and paint, and the quality of the materials in the original paint system used on an early 1970's GTV still the same, have the manufacturers stood still over the past (gulp) 46 years?

Not knowing anything about it, I'd of thought there would have still been a lot of development in two pack paints that would make the choice harder.

Chris :)

(waves to Al)
 
#20 ·
Here’s what the car looked like in May. Rowie, standing behind the car, had by that stage cleaned up the front and the roof and was about to tackle the rear end. I’m back in September and hopefully by then it’ll be painted or ready for paint. Then off to Bruno at Maranello Pursang in Coburg for a slow and steady re-assembly.
 

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#22 · (Edited)
It's your car, you know how you want it to look, do what you think will suit you best.
My choice would be old school single stage every time.
In '09 I was fortunate enough to purchase a very nice '72 Super with it's original Rosso Amaranto paint (most of it anyway) intact and in remarkably good condition. Alfas in period were painted in high quality single stage enamel and on this carefully maintained 37 year old example the paint, along with the rest of the car, had stood the test of time. A couple of afternoons of hand compounding followed by glaze, polish, and wax soon had the almost 4 decade old paint looking new. In my opinion, single stage enamel has some definite advantages. The problem, of course, is that most modern shops don't spray their cars with single stage and, in fact, may not have much experience working with it. That said, while my preference lies with single stage paint both for original appearance and longevity, the 2 stage paint used and preferred by most shops can produce excellent results.
 

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#23 ·
what type of paint should i use

Hi , I have a garage with a body shop as part of it, we have to fill in a form every year saying we require exemption to use single stage paint , it can only be used in the U.K on classic cars and tractors , it getting harder to carry on doing this due to more environmental laws ,the last one we did was an Alfa Alfetta , and I have to say it did look nice (sorry no pictures), but when it came to my own car I went with 2 stage base and clear as my car is grigio grafite and I thought in a few years being grey it could look a bit boring or flat , which maybe why the last owner painted it blue.
Good luck. Chris
 

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#24 ·
Thanks everyone. I've succumbed to progress and will be going with a base/clear. I'll post some updates in September when I do the next physical inspection. I'll also try and dig up some photos of it from the early stages of the work. I learnt a lot about panel work and welding on that car!
 
#25 ·
I have a 1970 1750 that has nice finish in single stage paint.
Reading that there is one stage acrylic and one stage Enamel which one did alfa originally use and what is used for resprays? ( if choosing single stage)
can i tell which mine would be ? and does it effect future paint work if either or?
cheers
 
#27 ·
Here’s mine: 2 stage aquabase AR213 + clearcoat = amazing in the hands of a real pro. Prep is everything. I haven’t seen it in the flesh yet, that’s for March 9, but trust the pro. I am dealing with.
 

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#39 ·
Nice Alistair... gee they look great freshly painted.

I’ve said it before, they look like a sculpture, work of art all naked like that.

Good luck with they rest of it...

Cheers,

Paul.
Looking good Al,

Cheers

Chris
Congrats Al..... looks fabulous! Always exciting to see the fresh paint!
I remember this car when it was your daily driver.... a loooong time ago!!

Thanks all. Mark, you win the prize for knowing this car the longest :). Chris - I hope this motivates you to get your car done as well!
 
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