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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

I have a Bertone cup, Junior 1972 model and should have gearbox change.

What is the best way to change the gearbox, Out with engine or not?

It looks pretty cramped on top of the clutch housing to get bolts if one takes out gearbox but not engine.

How long does it take to get out engine with gearbox for one that has most of the tools?

How does an engine attach when lifting it out? Especially when the gearbox is hanging? Have to tilt the engine back and hoist it out. Is there a good way to do it? Thanks

Regards
Arne
 

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What is the best way to change the gearbox, Out with engine or not?
There is no concensus on this - lots of existing BB threads discuss the pros and cons of both methods. Since I work solo, without a lift, I find removing the engine & trans together to be easier. Others may differ.

It looks pretty cramped on top of the clutch housing to get bolts if one takes out gearbox but not engine.
You're right.

How long does it take to get out engine with gearbox for one that has most of the tools?
Depends on how many times you have done it before, how many bolts are rusted (e.g., exhaust), etc. etc.

How does an engine attach when lifting it out? Especially when the gearbox is hanging? Have to tilt the engine back and hoist it out. Is there a good way to do it?
There is a lifting hook between two of the head studs on all Alfa engines. Yes, you have to tilt the engine & trans to get it out. Also remove or lower the tie rod.

Honestly, there are LOTS of existing threads on the BB covering this subject. Simply type "Alfa BB engine removal" into Google, and you'll get hits like: https://www.alfabb.com/threads/engine-removal.193772/
 

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Hi

Out with engine, best solution. You can inspect or change the engine mounts and other things if you want.

If you have all the tools, it's great.

Lift the car on jack stands, back much higher than the front.
On the middle of the cylinder head, you have a bracket to put the end of the engine hoist stand.

The engine with gearbox go out almost vertically from places. After that you have to lift all together for it to pass over the front face of the car.

2 people are needed for that. 3 hours if everything goes well without ever done.

0°) drain the coolant and the oil from gearbox (the oil from engine if you want, not necessary). Remove the radiator and hoses
1°) undo screws from propshaft center mounting
2°) undo screws from propshaft donut (it's time to change it, change the screws as well)
3°) undo screws from exhaust manifold
4°) disconnect elctrical and fuel hoses
5°) remove fuel filter, ignition coil, throttle linkage and cables (4 cables, if I have good memory)
6°) remove the 2 center spark plug + connect the end of the engine hoist stand onto the bracket
7°) undo screws from engine mounting

The tricky part :

8°) put a jack under the rear gearbox and undo screws the rear cross.
9°) with the hoist stand in tension, gently let down the box by removing the jack
10°) lift the engine out of the car => a person must help the gearbox to get out of the place by lowering the back of it to the maximum. The other person is managing the hoist stand lifting this one.

The whole must come out vertically, then the gearbox is free and you have to be careful that the oil pan is not touching the upper front of the car.

The space between the front sway bar and the engine is small, but we manage to make it happen.

Good luck !
 

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Bosch injected engines take longer, carbureted, not so long.

I’ve done both ways. The problem with removing only the gearbox is the difficulty of getting it back in. I found that removing just the gearbox requires undoing the engine mounts so the engine can be adequately tilted.

So, now, I always pull both.

On carb engine, with air tools, portable crane, and engine “tilter”, I can remove an engine and trans in one or two hours. Reinstallation is about three or four hours. All working by myself.

Of course, this assumes overall good condition. Rusted, frozen fasteners, aftermarket headers, and other surprises will add time.
 

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This may be a dumb question from someone never having done it before but if one has a lift (2 or 4 post) can the transmission be unbolted from underneath and dropped down to remove, without removing the engine?
 

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This may be a dumb question from someone never having done it before but if one has a lift (2 or 4 post) can the transmission be unbolted from underneath and dropped down to remove, without removing the engine?
Yes and that is what I always do. The two bolts at the top of the bell housing are a bit hard to undo, otherwise it is not bad. Some people leave out the top two bolts with no ill effects. I am an old geezer and I can do it on my own.
 

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The factory manual I used when changing the clutch on my 65 Sprint GT back in about 1973 showed a smiling young tech in a starched and spotless white lab coat standing under some version of 105. He was balancing the transmission on his unstressed finger tips, and the caption read “tilting conveniently, remove the transmission.”

I realize now that “tilting conveniently” meant “unbolt the engine mounts, and use a hoist to lift the front of the engine.”

The pictured transmission was probably a magnesium prototype with no guts inside at all.
 

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I use a jack and a piece of 4x4 under the front of the pan to tilt the motor.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Hi, thanks for all the good answers and advice as well as job description. It was very good, thanks Pescara, Alfajay, DPeterson, 5thinline. Appreciate it and have searched the forum as well :).

What you are saying about taking out the engine is the best solution. I can inspect or change engine mounts and anything else if I want. I've owned Junior since 2001 and haven't had the engine out in those years. Think it might be wise to take it out for inspection. That was not the plan, but plans are to change them :). The basic point is to change the gearbox, but if there are other faults I fix it at the same time. The rest work very well on my Junior and use it a lot with about 4-5000km a year. We do not have a long running season in norway than from May to September month.

Wondering to buy me an engine lifter that is adjustable for this job. Seems like a brilliant solution.

I have some questions about the clutch housing: On the "drive shaft" which stands the drive gearbox there is the cone at the end which lies against the gearbox. On mine are there some wounds and does it have anything to say? See picture. I have seen several who do not have it installed and wonder why it is there and possibly why something has not.

Back light switch: I do the old switch that is attached with 2 screws, but there are newer switches that are screwed straight on. Then you will need another clutch housing that has that solution. Is it worth switching on these two switches and houses? I think about quality and durability? If the back light switch fails then the gearbox must be out and I want to reduce that from happening. Flywheel and clutch will be changed as well as sim ring (sealing ring).

Got a lot of questions and want to use the opportunities when I have good Alfa specialists :)

Thanks

Takk
1606272
1606274
 

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Wondering to buy me an engine lifter that is adjustable for this job. Seems like a brilliant solution.
Having an engine lifter that tilts your engine MAY make things easier. But, I've removed & replaced many Alfa engines and gearboxes without one, always working solo. The trick is to put the lifting hook on the second pair of head studs from the front (one position forward from where it is in your picture). That allows the engine & trans to come out at just the right angle give or take a little. Even for a skinny little guy like me, the all-aluminum Alfa engine & trans are light enough that you can raise/lower the transmission tail a bit by hand to wiggle it out.

I have some questions about the clutch housing: On the "drive shaft" which stands the drive gearbox there is the cone at the end which lies against the gearbox. On mine are there some wounds and does it have anything to say?
The throw-out bearing rides along that tube. But the corrosion pits on that cone at the base of the tube shouldn't cause any problems. Just make sure the TO bearing slides freely back and forth.

Back light switch: I do the old switch that is attached with 2 screws, but there are newer switches that are screwed straight on. Then you will need another clutch housing that has that solution. Is it worth switching on these two switches and houses?
I believe the screw-in back up light switches go on later Alfa transmissions (post '73) which do not have the three shift rods extending into the bellhousing. I believe those later transmissions had the screw-in switch at the base of the gearshift lever, not in the bellhousing (or am I thinking of the neutral switch for the seatbelt warning system?).

In any case, I don't think you can put a later bellhousing on your early transmission, since it won't have the "D" shaped clearance hole for the three shift rods. In other words, without replacing the whole transmission & bellhousing, you're stuck with the type of back-up light switch that you have.
 

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In any case, I don't think you can put a later bellhousing on your early transmission, since it won't have the "D" shaped clearance hole for the three shift rods. In other words, without replacing the whole transmission & bellhousing, you're stuck with the type of back-up light switch that you have.
 

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In any case, I don't think you can put a later bellhousing on your early transmission, since it won't have the "D" shaped clearance hole for the three shift rods. In other words, without replacing the whole transmission & bellhousing, you're stuck with the type of back-up light switch that you have.
Correct. The bellhousing must match the gearbox. I am pretty sure that the switch itself is the same.
Regarding the tube, I had one come loose so make sure that it is tight. Mine now has a little JB Weld on it to reduce the probability of coming loose again.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Hi, sorry for late reply, but job travel has taken my time.

First, thanks for all the answers and very helpful. This makes working much easier.
Okay, as I understand you there are 2 different bell housings (clutch housing) - Series 1 (older version) and Series 2 (newer version) that must fit what type of gearbox you have.

Thanks for all the help, it has been clarifying.

Regards
 

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A little late to the "engine+trans" or "trans alone" conversation, but I will put this out there FWIW. I had the pleasure of dropping the gearbox on a 65 Giulia Sprint GT (which will be very similar to your Jr.) solo twice within a month due to some poor machine shop work. I found it pretty straightforward both times (and it was the first time I had dropped any gearbox). Two things: 1) do what Ed said...2x4 block under oil pan to tilt the engine; 2) have a 3-ft extension on ratchet along with a u-joint to get at the starter bolts. With this, I found starter bolts a breeze.

Putting it back in...wasn't an issue for me. I did it without a transmission jack. If you have a trans jack, even easier.

Just my experience, FWIW.
 
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