[Joe Papa Sr]

Man, driving to work just hours ago, Joe Jr heard his muffler dragging, and pulled over, worrried. I mean, sparks/fuel tank nearby, you know. He calls me on the cell phone - we spoike briefly- say, 30-60 seconds. Some biker cop apparently saw him, stopped, and without even approaching him at the window to warn him/communicate with him to get out or else, he startes writing a ticket.

Jr gets out to ask whats up, he says "hey, you were on the phone, and didnt see my thumb signal". Jr (or myself) never saw a question on thumb signals/sign language on the driver's test when he earned his license years ago.

. Jr said he was on the phone for a minute and only trying to get advice from a mechanic on the danger of the situation. Cop says basically, "dont gimme that". He then said he was actually "nice" for not ticketing him for being at a bus stop. Geeez, stopping for a minute?? For a damaged car/potantially dangerous situation? What if there had been a fire?? Wouldnt that have shut down the lanes completely for 1-2 hrs/??

He finally said he could contest it with a letter, mailed to the court. I will help him with that.

Anybody think this is normal/fair/typical? Whats our chance to get this waived, people?

Thanks!

 

[101/105guy]

California is out of money.........

 

[Joe Papa Sr]

That was my 1st thought, but then I figured, thats such a looooow stoop. Steal money from a kid in trouble on the side of the road..........Oh welll, we all pay, right?

 

[Nicola]

Man, driving to work just hours ago, Joe Jr heard his muffler dragging, and pulled over, worrried. I mean, sparks/fuel tank nearby, you know. He calls me on the cell phone - we spoike briefly- say, 30-60 seconds. Some biker cop apparently saw him, stopped, and without even approaching him at the window to warn him/communicate with him to get out or else, he startes writing a ticket.

Jr gets out to ask whats up, he says "hey, you were on the phone, and didnt see my thumb signal". Jr (or myself) never saw a question on thumb signals/sign language on the driver's test when he earned his license years ago.

. Jr said he was on the phone for a minute and only trying to get advice from a mechanic on the danger of the situation. Cop says basically, "dont gimme that". He then said he was actually "nice" for not ticketing him for being at a bus stop. Geeez, stopping for a minute?? For a damaged car/potantially dangerous situation? What if there had been a fire?? Wouldnt that have shut down the lanes completely for 1-2 hrs/??

He finally said he could contest it with a letter, mailed to the court. I will help him with that.

Anybody think this is normal/fair/typical? Whats our chance to get this waived, people?

Thanks!

Maybe best posted on bbleaks forum.....

 

[Pat Braden]

What Is It with these LA Cops?

...He finally said he could contest it with a letter, mailed to the court. I will help him with that.

Anybody think this is normal/fair/typical? Whats our chance to get this waived, people?

Thanks!

Normal, yes; fair, in the policeman's eyes; typical, yes.

Making a 911 call is the only exemption in California for using your cell phone while driving without the proper one ear blue tooth or visor mounted hands free phone calls. If someone were dying in the car they would probably exempt that also, but most likely someone would be calling 911 if that were happening.

Californian's have considered it their right to use their cell phones while driving even with increased ticket prices, literally, thumbing their noses at police, accepting that it is a price of doing business and living in California. As a result, every major Southern California County has upped enforcement and the police accept no excuses as your son experienced. They regularly run TV promos about upped enforcement.

Unfortunately, your son fits the typical profile...young, red sports car, out of state plates. The policeman probably figured he would not contest the ticket with out of state plates and simply pay it. Your bigger problem is that the out of state plate will be recorded and in certain areas the police watch for cars that they see regularly which retain out of state plates. You may be forced to register the car in California now and take your chances with smog.

Further, with all of the police shootings, being purposely run down, and road rage incidents the police, in general, take no attitude, excuses, or anything else. I've seen them get on the loud speaker and make a motorist pull over immediately if they ignore the sirens and lights. That only leads to a full search of the car and if they find anything out of the ordinary, they will impound the car and arrest the driver. I live in a small bedroom community and typically, 3-4 police units will respond to a normal ticket stop. Talk about feeling intimidated. Also university police are also allowed to write tickets and make stops on California streets.

My best advice, pullover, don't say anything because that policeman writes down everything you say to be used against you if you decide to go to court and fight the ticket. Be polite and comply with their instructions. If more than one unit responds they will come up on both sides of the car; best to keep your hands on the top of the steering wheel where they can be seen; don't start digging for your wallet, driver's license, proof of insurance etc. If you don't, they will come up on the car with weapons drawn. If it's one unit they usually go to the passenger's side of the car first and once they can see that there is no threat will go around to the driver's side. They will have run your plates for tickets, wants, and warrants before they ever approach the car.

California is out of money.........

Randy, is spot on.

 

[shadowburn]

Man, driving to work just hours ago, Joe Jr heard his muffler dragging, and pulled over, worrried. I mean, sparks/fuel tank nearby, you know. He calls me on the cell phone - we spoike briefly- say, 30-60 seconds. Some biker cop apparently saw him, stopped, and without even approaching him at the window to warn him/communicate with him to get out or else, he startes writing a ticket.

Jr gets out to ask whats up, he says "hey, you were on the phone, and didnt see my thumb signal". Jr (or myself) never saw a question on thumb signals/sign language on the driver's test when he earned his license years ago.

. Jr said he was on the phone for a minute and only trying to get advice from a mechanic on the danger of the situation. Cop says basically, "dont gimme that". He then said he was actually "nice" for not ticketing him for being at a bus stop. Geeez, stopping for a minute?? For a damaged car/potantially dangerous situation? What if there had been a fire?? Wouldnt that have shut down the lanes completely for 1-2 hrs/??

He finally said he could contest it with a letter, mailed to the court. I will help him with that.

Anybody think this is normal/fair/typical? Whats our chance to get this waived, people?

Thanks!

Always possible to contest the ticket.

Normal/fair/typical... yes. Had a friend pulled over for doing the speed limit on the freeway in the farthest right "slow" lane, and was told by the cop he was driving too slow, speed up or he'd get a ticket.

The question is, was he ever talking on a "non" hands free phone while the car was in motion on the roadway, or was he parked at the side of the road while using the phone? At this point, the location of where he was parked (bus stop) is irrelevant and there is no reason to mention where, only that he was parked safely with the engine off etc, when or if you decide to contest.

It is illegal to talk on the phone while driving in Ca. unless its hands free (speakerphone or bluetooth). Its also illegal to text, read text or email etc, while driving.

Do the idiots, who should and really deserve to, get pulled over for doing either while driving get pulled over? You know, the ones that shouldn't have never been given a driver's license, the ones that should be pulled out of the car, ticketed, keys and car taken away, hit over the head with their phone and or a bat, until they're a bloody gooey mushy mess, because they're too stupid to know how to drive and almost ran you off the road. No, it doesn't seem that they ever get pulled over.

Anyway, here is a portion of the Ca. V.C. he is "supposed" to have violated as well as part of the code referring to texting. Maybe it can help contest the ticket. Also, did the officer have a clear and unobstructed view of him talking on the phone while the car was in motion? Contesting tickets can sometimes be fun and educational.

23123. (a) A person shall not drive a motor vehicle while using a
wireless telephone unless that telephone is specifically designed and
configured to allow hands-free listening and talking, and is used in
that manner while driving.
(b) A violation of this section is an infraction punishable by a
base fine of twenty dollars ($20) for a first offense and fifty
dollars ($50) for each subsequent offense.
(c) This section does not apply to a person using a wireless
telephone for emergency purposes, including, but not limited to, an
emergency call to a law enforcement agency, health care provider,
fire department, or other emergency services agency or entity....

23123.5. (a) A person shall not drive a motor vehicle while using
an electronic wireless communications device to write, send, or read
a text-based communication.
(b) As used in this section "write, send, or read a text-based
communication" means using an electronic wireless communications
device to manually communicate with any person using a text-based
communication, including, but not limited to, communications referred
to as a text message, instant message, or electronic mail.
(c) For purposes of this section, a person shall not be deemed to
be writing, reading, or sending a text-based communication if the
person reads, selects, or enters a telephone number or name in an
electronic wireless communications device for the purpose of making
or receiving a telephone call.
(d) A violation of this section is an infraction punishable by a
base fine of twenty dollars ($20) for a first offense and fifty
dollars ($50) for each subsequent offense....

 

[shadowburn]

...My best advice, pullover, don't say anything because that policeman writes down everything you say to be used against you if you decide to go to court and fight the ticket. Be polite and comply with their instructions. If more than one unit responds they will come up on both sides of the car; best to keep your hands on the top of the steering wheel where they can be seen; don't start digging for your wallet, driver's license, proof of insurance etc. If you don't, they will come up on the car with weapons drawn. If it's one unit they usually go to the passenger's side of the car first and once they can see that there is no threat will go around to the driver's side. They will have run your plates for tickets, wants, and warrants before they ever approach the car...

What Cheryl said...

I'd like add to her advice, keep both hands on the steering wheel where they can see them, keep your seat belt buckled. After they've approached the car, looked around and then asked for the license etc, say that you're reaching for them and where they are, then unbuckle the seat belt and get them. If you don't they'll give you a ticket for not having your seat belt on. Regardless of if there is one or two cops in the car pulling you over, they're already approaching your car with their hands on their guns and the holsters open ready to draw.

 

[Joe Papa Sr]

Thanks, people. He was stationary/ stopped/already pulled over (before cop arrived). I know the road is full of creeps. Dont blame cops sometimes, but this it well, seems like overkill. Like I said on the other thread on moving to LA recently, he is engaged to register v soon with his new job.

He gave the cop no attitude, I believe. Its a jungle out there, I know. everyone pays.


Tanks for the encouragment. Thanks, for the code of regulations. We will contest, and hes not going anywhere now .

But, just found out- he got off work just 20 -30 minutes ago- tied the exhaust up with extension cord, multiple windings. Should get him home in Glendale. Anyone suggest a good muffler place in the morning so they can weld up a broken bracket/new rubber hanger?

Thats our immediate need.....Thanks, v much, people.

 

[Joe Papa Sr]

What Cheryl said...

I'd like add to her advice, keep both hands on the steering wheel where they can see them, keep your seat belt buckled. After they've approached the car, looked around and then asked for the license etc, say that you're reaching for them and where they are, then unbuckle the seat belt and get them. If you don't they'll give you a ticket for not having your seat belt on. Regardless of if there is one or two cops in the car pulling you over, they're already approaching your car with their hands on their guns and the holsters open ready to draw.

Man, its a police state..........

 

[shadowburn]

He could try ALFA Italia in Burbank, its on the IKEA side of the freeway and a bit north, they might be able to help. A place I've never tried, but have been curious about and wanted to check out is Morse Muffler, its on Burbank Blvd. directly across from Costco. There's even a Pep boys service center that opened at Burbank and Magnolia.

I prefer Joe's Muffler by Pico & La Brea, but that might be a bit far for just a bracket to be rewelded.

 

[Joe Papa Sr]

He could try ALFA Italia in Burbank, its on the IKEA side of the freeway and a bit north, they might be able to help. A place I've never tried, but have been curious about and wanted to check out is Morse Muffler, its on Burbank Blvd. directly across from Costco. There's even a Pep boys service center that opened at Burbank and Magnolia.

I prefer Joe's Muffler by Pico & La Brea, but that might be a bit far for just a bracket to be rewelded.

Thanks, Shadow. I'll look them up tomorrow and talk to maybe 1 or 2 of these places.

Update: just talked to Joseph.....refined/corrected information at the scene of the crime- it wasnt a "cop"carried no gun. It was a "security/parking enforcer on a bicycle....LOL (initially he told me a cop on a bike, me thinking a harley/whatever, but its a bicycle. )

This guy could be a Jerk, jerk, jerk.

Oh, Joseph was completely pulled over on the side of the road, with blinking flashing emergency lights, dead stopped. On the phone. Isnt that legal?

 

[shadowburn]

Should be legal to be parked legally and talk on the phone. That's what you're supposed to do if you don't have a hands free phone. Being parked in a bus zone is a moot point, because the cop didn't give a ticket for that.

LOL, we have "real" cops on bicycles (they sometimes travel in packs), pick up trucks, SUVs, Segways, Harleys/BMWs, helicopters, horses, and cars. Those are just the normal patrol vehicles.

 

[archeologist]

I believe if you are in the car, on a public street, you are considered to be driving. i.e. if you're passed out drunk in a car parked on the side of a road, you can be arrested for DUI.

It all depends on how they define "driving". Engine on? On a public street? etc.

Good luck, no harm in contesting it. Might get lucky and the cop doesn't show.

 

[Joe Papa Sr]

I believe if you are in the car, on a public street, you are considered to be driving. i.e. if you're passed out drunk in a car parked on the side of a road, you can be arrested for DUI.

It all depends on how they define "driving". Engine on? On a public street? etc.

Good luck, no harm in contesting it. Might get lucky and the cop doesn't show.

Thanks, archeologist. But based on the codes that Shadow provided for me, it says [shall not use a cell phone while DRIVING]. Now, what does driving mean? I take it, and can argue, that parking is NOT driving. Any lawyers here?

 

[Pat Braden]

What Is It with these LA Cops?

Thanks, archeologist. But based on the codes that Shadow provided for me, it says [shall not use a cell phone while DRIVING]. Now, what does driving mean? I take it, and can argue, that parking is NOT driving. Any lawyers here?

Not a lawyer, but I would be willing to bet, that if the engine was running the cop will counter with that's the same as sitting at a red light, when technically, you're not moving/driving, but using your cell phone is illegal except for blue tooth or hands free. And yes, I've been known to pull over to the curb, when I get a call or receive a text and sit and talk or text, without turning my engine off, which I'm sure is not allowed under the law, especially, under this definition which seems to indicate you could be sitting still by the use of the word controlling.

driving: the act of controlling and steering the movement of a vehicle or animal

 

[Joe Papa Sr]

Not a lawyer, but I would be willing to bet, that if the engine was running the cop will counter with that's the same as sitting at a red light, when technically, you're not moving/driving, but using your cell phone is illegal except for blue tooth or hands free. And yes, I've been known to pull over to the curb, when I get a call or receive a text and sit and talk or text, without turning my engine off, which I'm sure is not allowed under the law, especially, under this definition which seems to indicate you could be sitting still by the use of the word controlling.

driving: the act of controlling and steering the movement of a vehicle or animal

animal.....lol. Thanks, Cheryl.. I have to ask Jr if the engine was off. Still, if its as you say, even with engine off (he had the emerg flashers on too), I guess a phone is illegal, if the only ones allowed are blue tooth/hands free.....

Sheesh. Still Im not giving up- we will write a letter.

 

[shadowburn]

Not a lawyer either, and haven't really looked for the definition of "drive a motor vehicle or while driving."

This may help though (not necessarily specific to the situation, but might help form an argument):

Vehicle code Definitions

463. "Park or parking" shall mean the standing of a vehicle,
whether occupied or not, otherwise than temporarily for the purpose
of and while actually engaged in loading or unloading merchandise or
passengers.

530. A "roadway" is that portion of a highway improved, designed,
or ordinarily used for vehicular travel.

587. "Stop or stopping" when prohibited shall mean any cessation of
movement of a vehicle, whether occupied or not, except when
necessary to avoid conflict with other traffic or in compliance with
the direction of a police officer or official traffic control device
or signal.

590. "Street" is a way or place of whatever nature, publicly
maintained and open to the use of the public for purposes of
vehicular travel. Street includes highway.

Here's a portion of VEHICLE CODE
SECTION 22500

22500. No person shall stop, park, or leave standing any vehicle
whether attended or unattended, except when necessary to avoid
conflict with other traffic or in compliance with the directions of a
peace officer or official traffic control device....

You never know, just the simple act of contesting a ticket with an argument that makes some semblance of logical sense can be enough to have a ticket dismissed.

 

[shadowburn]

Now trying to see problems with this etc. You got the thing of "while operating a motor vehicle." The VC specifically and only states, "drive a motor vehicle or while driving." Although operating a motor vehicle may well encompass driving, you could argue that he was by definition stopped or parked, in order to avoid conflict with other traffic, due to a problem with the vehicle and not actually driving, although operating a motor vehicle.

...and I could just be talking out my a**

 

[Christian D.]

Joe just to let you know, if your son was stopped or parked in a bus zone and he only got the ticket for a cellphone, he got a pretty good deal. A bus zone ticket is super expensive.

 

[Joe Papa Sr]

Not a lawyer either, and haven't really looked for the definition of "drive a motor vehicle or while driving."

This may help though (not necessarily specific to the situation, but might help form an argument):

Vehicle code Definitions

463. "Park or parking" shall mean the standing of a vehicle,
whether occupied or not, otherwise than temporarily for the purpose
of and while actually engaged in loading or unloading merchandise or
passengers.

530. A "roadway" is that portion of a highway improved, designed,
or ordinarily used for vehicular travel.

587. "Stop or stopping" when prohibited shall mean any cessation of
movement of a vehicle, whether occupied or not, except when
necessary to avoid conflict with other traffic or in compliance with
the direction of a police officer or official traffic control device
or signal.

590. "Street" is a way or place of whatever nature, publicly
maintained and open to the use of the public for purposes of
vehicular travel. Street includes highway.

Here's a portion of VEHICLE CODE
SECTION 22500

22500. No person shall stop, park, or leave standing any vehicle
whether attended or unattended, except when necessary to avoid
conflict with other traffic or in compliance with the directions of a
peace officer or official traffic control device....

You never know, just the simple act of contesting a ticket with an argument that makes some semblance of logical sense can be enough to have a ticket dismissed.

Thanks, Shad. Notice section 22500 just above- thats it. ".....except when necessaryto avoid conflictwith other traffic....". maybe I could use this when we write the letter. Seems fair/logical one should stop a car to prevent something worse happening......