Alfa Romeo Forums banner

13361 - 13380 of 14423 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
683 Posts
I have seen more and more Giulias and Stelvios up in the Toronto area.

The biggest headache with Alfas and other Italian Marquis that cater to those who can afford less than 100k is the cost of repairs, especially where parts are hard to come by via the 3rd party network. Someone parting with $100k can afford a $1200 tune up but many parting with $50 will have a hard time dealing with high maintanence costs.
There would be more healthy 164's running around if things like bearings and struts were more easily obtained and did not cost stupid amounts of $$$. Why did it cost me nearly $110 U.S. for 2 foams, 2 rubbers and 2 bearings for my Boge struts when I can but a complete set of front and rear struts for my wife's Nissan for $450 Canadian? What is the difference between a $30 Ford bearing and $100 Alfa one? Little I thing, in regards to cost of manufacturing, but as one is made to fit many models and the other is model specific....you see the problem. If the 3rd party parts distributorship does not pick up on Alfa parts, the cars will suffer the same fate. I can go to a VW repair shop and pick up a part for a VW that will also fit an Audi, Porsche in many cases. Time will tell.
Bearings and a lot of parts are not specific to Alfa Romeo. You can use Techdoc to find how they interchange with other brands. Also by knowing the size of bearings you can order them from any supplier as Motion or Skeans. The same works almost for any rubber part. In Europe you can find huge quantity of aftermarket suppliers for Alfa, from no name Chinese companies to Bosch, TRW and Schaefer. Do research before you spend money, try to use cross-references. Some of them are even built in in ePer.


Sent from my Z957 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
348 Posts
I have seen more and more Giulias and Stelvios up in the Toronto area.

The biggest headache with Alfas and other Italian Marquis that cater to those who can afford less than 100k is the cost of repairs, especially where parts are hard to come by via the 3rd party network. Someone parting with $100k can afford a $1200 tune up but many parting with $50 will have a hard time dealing with high maintanence costs.
There would be more healthy 164's running around if things like bearings and struts were more easily obtained and did not cost stupid amounts of $$$. Why did it cost me nearly $110 U.S. for 2 foams, 2 rubbers and 2 bearings for my Boge struts when I can but a complete set of front and rear struts for my wife's Nissan for $450 Canadian? What is the difference between a $30 Ford bearing and $100 Alfa one? Little I thing, in regards to cost of manufacturing, but as one is made to fit many models and the other is model specific....you see the problem. If the 3rd party parts distributorship does not pick up on Alfa parts, the cars will suffer the same fate. I can go to a VW repair shop and pick up a part for a VW that will also fit an Audi, Porsche in many cases. Time will tell.
But that happens with German luxury cars too. For a direct comparison, try fixing up a 1991-1995 Mercedes C-class or E-Class. Sure some things are more common thanks for them not leaving the market, but theres a reason those cars go straight to the junkyard. Because nobody wants to drop $3000 on repairs into a $1000 car, especially that it can easily be replaced with nearly the same car (since they made so many more). You really can't compare an Alfa 164 to a Nissan, the Alfa was always sold as a luxury car. Nissan parts prices will always blow away luxury car prices. The 164's main problem was AR exiting the market in 1995 and supporting the cars with the bare minimum required by law.

Happens a lot with ~10 year old German cars, saw it a lot when I sold insurance. These guys would buy a late 90's BMW 750iL or Mercedes S-Class for $10k and tint the windows and think they were a baller over their friend who spent $10k on a 8 year newer used Civic. Then their first $1200 brake job would come (because $100k MSRP cars still have $100k car expenses despite only selling for $10k, why do you think its so cheap?) and they would be stuck with a non operable heap they couldn't afford to fix. My daily commute passes junkyards daily that are filled with Mercedes CLKs. Was a hot car for a while, then people got the bill to fix the electronic suspension (similar to ours except twice the price).

I agree with you though, the parts flow needs to continue in the future. But thanks to todays cars it will really require the dealers to be around thanks to the computer controls for many things. Brake jobs and front end parts is one thing, but engine work is going to need specialists, and dealer computers. Same as any other luxury car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
878 Posts
All good points but I am not talking about computers or very specific control parts but of basic components. I would think that the T tensioner that the 164 uses (mine at least) is not any more complicated than the one for the Audi. They even look alike. The mounting points are not the same or a swap might be feasible if the tension numbers are comparable. Point being that if Alfa used a more commonly accessible part for some of their systems, repairs would be more reasonable and fewer cars would break down or get junked. We can go back and forth on this for days but all of the points are right to one degree or another.


As for today's Alfa activities, I am continuing with the trunk refurb. Removed the bumper (easy to do), removed the right tow loop (not easy to do as one bolt snapped and the part is also tack welded in place so lots of chiseling, which is why I removed the bumper) cut out part of the floor at the right tow hook (not as easy to do). Off to vacation land so I will trace out new metal and start shaping in a few weeks. Images from previous did not take so I will attach here.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,289 Posts
Alfa’s fate in the US? I don’t know that it really matters to me. For one thing I have never purchased a new automobile so I know that neither Alfa Romeo, Land Rover, Ferrari nor Ford give a hoot about me as a customer. I’ve been an Alfa owner since 1980 so I’m used to owning an orphaned mark, we all seemed to get by just fine when Alfa left in ‘94. Lastly, I don’t care for the new models from any of them. Maybe the new Giulia is a decent car but I honestly can’t see much that makes it stand out from a BMW or a high end Hyundai. Most new cars look pretty much identical these days. The new Land Rover Discovery looks like a Ford Explorer. Prior to the 164 Alfa Romeos were distinctly Alfa Romeos, there really weren’t other cars that looked like them or had the same architecture like the 116’s or Milano’s They were unique as were many other marks in their own ways.

Alfa still has the coolest badge though, I’ll give them that.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,416 Posts
I think I would include the 164 styling which doesn't look the same as all the other makes. Otherwise, I think you are pretty much correct that many newer cars all look kind of lumpy, SUV/Crossover looking, almost even the Giulia sedan (although a few will disagree, I'm sure, lol).

Otherwise, Alfa wise today, didn't do too much but replaced a headlight bulb and checked the oil level in the 91S, and received a used 164 left side engine mount in the mail, sent by Chris in Italy. Looks good. Thank you very much. I owe you.

Otherwise, still working on replacing a rotten deck next to the house. Hot, another 90F day (no thanks to global climate change), breaking records for lack of rain, and for number of days above certain temperatures, and max daily temperature, but not as bad as the SW or what the East Coast can be, thank goodness.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
491 Posts
My 164 always stands out in the crowd. Even to a non car person they always ask what it is and where it's from. It puts a smile on my face everytime knowing I drive something completely different from the rest of the pack. I had owned a 2015 VW Passat Wolfsburg Edition and it was a nice car I traded that in for a 2017 VW Jetta GLI 6 speed manual and not even 2 weeks later it was hit by a drunk driver. And shortly after that I bought Chazzys 164L. Yes it was a new car, you seen them here and there once in a while but it really never had that Alfa feel. I drove the new quadrifoglio last year and maybe it's just me but I sensed that Alfa uniqueness when driving it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
26,699 Posts
Discussion Starter #13,367
I did drive the S BB2 around the block and had our lawn man ask me about it when he was here on Wednesday. It is blocked in garage now by my trailer on that side of driveway. I need to try to park trailer temporally on the grass next to garage or in neighbor's driveway. I don't have access to backyard for trailer like I do in VB.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,416 Posts
No thanks. Nice picture, though, "Alfa being lovingly prepped".

Oil rotation? Tire change? Lol, heat getting to you?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,773 Posts
[QUOTketchikanE=Del;8293024]No thanks. Nice picture, though, "Alfa being lovingly prepped".

Oil rotation? Tire change? Lol, heat getting to you?[/QUOTE]

Ha! Just checking who’s reading!


I’ll have to do recon in Seattle one day. . Maybe amazon will have me as a janitor. :grin2:

My bro flew in from San Jose to Seattle earlier this week, to make his way to ketchikan Alaska for salmon fishing. Not a bad work perk.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,416 Posts
Sure, why not? Lol, we may be having 90F days and no rain now (very unusual, setting records no thanks to global climate change) but at least the humidity is not worth really talking about, mid 40%s right now.

Lots of engineering jobs, lots of Alfas, lots to do, lots of green (sometimes moss, lol), lots of mountains.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
348 Posts
Got out of work early today so since we registered the 164 I took it to my body shop and then to Alfa auto clinic to get the lay of the land on my project.

So I was considering buying this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ALFA-ROMEO-164-RIGHT-SIDE-QUARTER-PANEL-NOS/271327563903?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

But my body man basically said don't do it. To his point its a lot of money for a panel thats going to cost a lot more to get installed. He looked at the rot I have and definitely thinks that section needs to be replaced, but suggested I try and get my hands on a much cheaper used quarter, which they can cut out and graft the section they need on (and not cut up a $540 only one in existence left fender). His main concerns were dismantling the back of the car and that I would need to replace door seals and so on to do it, as well as if the back window breaks would need that too. Just a lot of concern for a lot of old parts that may be NLA. He said patching the rot I have is out of the question, it will come back.

Then headed to Alfa Auto Clinic to introduce myself and see if they have any records. The owners were not there but the mechanic who was (and some other guy) immediately know who my Uncle was and spoke very highly of him and said that they had recently done some work on the car. He didn't have access to any records but said my uncle was there with any of the 3 cars literally all the time any time he so much as heard a noise, and that the 164 mechanically I have nothing to worry about. I asked about getting parts (specifically at this point the right side rear quarter) and they have 2 fairly complete 164S outside right now they are parting, among tons of other parts so getting what I need is no problem. They said to come back and speak to the owner since he knew my uncle well and he can give me some history on what was done recently and where I should focus on. Great guys there.

As for the car itself it last ran 2 weeks ago when I got it. The battery was completely dead (dash wouldn't even light up). We jumped it to start it and it died after about 20 seconds. Did it again and gave it a few revs and it was fine. I think the alternator isn't charging so well if the voltmeter can be trusted. Didn't have time to test further but I found at idle the needle would be barely over 12, and it would only get into the 14v range under load. There still may be some sort of draw as well somewhere int he car, but I'm pretty sure the Alternator isn't helping the situation. and with these not long trips its only getting the battery up just enough for 1 or 2 more starts before its gone. The battery probably needs to be replaced, but the alternator probably does too.

The suspension feels great, however I noticed the rear squats considerably under acceleration, more than I'd expect, so its possible the rear shocks need a full rebuild. The fronts felt stiff. Car tracks, drives and steers straight, brakes well, and the engine runs smooth, A/C is still cold. Other thing was on the 2-3 shift I noticed a clunk from the front of the motor but not from the transmission, I think a motor mount may be on the way out as well.

So the game plan is started!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,416 Posts
The rear springs on these cars, as with almost all cars, are considerably softer than the fronts. Pushing down on the front of the car will not tell you anything. If the car feels good when you drive it, wouldn't worry about the shocks at this time in the game.

The alt sounds ok, for the most part. My 91S has always read pretty much the same, just keeps running. Usually, all you have to do with the alt is replace the diode/brush module, unless it is making noise.

Replace the battery. Get a good one from Costco (they are Interstate). Personally, I've always just used the standard size 27, not the 31 in my 91S, always have with no problems. Your choice.

Check the upper dogbone mount bushings for a start for checking the mounts. Then the lower front right.

Sounds like the Clinic has the body parts you would need to fix the damage. Good shops can do wonders.

Good luck. Keep us posted.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,754 Posts
hose off you head John? ciao,chris
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,416 Posts
Hah, back there, even the water is hot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
348 Posts
The rear springs on these cars, as with almost all cars, are considerably softer than the fronts. Pushing down on the front of the car will not tell you anything. If the car feels good when you drive it, wouldn't worry about the shocks at this time in the game.

The alt sounds ok, for the most part. My 91S has always read pretty much the same, just keeps running. Usually, all you have to do with the alt is replace the diode/brush module, unless it is making noise.

Replace the battery. Get a good one from Costco (they are Interstate). Personally, I've always just used the standard size 27, not the 31 in my 91S, always have with no problems. Your choice.

Check the upper dogbone mount bushings for a start for checking the mounts. Then the lower front right.

Sounds like the Clinic has the body parts you would need to fix the damage. Good shops can do wonders.

Good luck. Keep us posted.
Once I get it up in the air on my lift I'll check to be sure if the shocks are leaking. In theory if they aren't leaking then there really is nothing wrong with them and its just the way it is. I'd still like to get the lowering springs Jason has so I'll probably take it apart either way, clean up the shock bodies and paint them to make them look nice and clean.

Thats weird behavior on the alternator, usually its like ~14 until the car is fully charged then it gets a bit lower. I agree the battery is shot. I may go with a yellowtop however as I like to use those in my cars that sit often, just in case.

Will check those mounts thanks for the heads up on that!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,773 Posts
Try cleaning the terminals and connections on the alternator. I was able to get voltage up a bit by doing that, after having some charging issues. There are a couple simple tests to check if there is high voltage drop between the battery and the alternator. I can send you some info if you need it.

Another sweaty one already. More hosing off in store for today. Only thing Alfa related may be a trip to Lowe’s for wire wheels and paint. I battle my nemesis today...the rusty Bilco doors.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,773 Posts
My 164 always stands out in the crowd.
I have the second oldest car in the parking lot at the office as far as I can determine among at least a thousand cars.
Oldest is a 60's Chevy truck who parks near me and we exchange stories on occasion as we walk into the building.
He winds his windows down (manually) so that he has A/C which nowadays is a very warm FL breeze.

My 164's draw looks and comments almost every time I go out in them.
Liquor store manager always asks about them.

Whoever had a GP doctor like mine who once walked past his waiting sick patients to look under the under the hood of my 164 as they watched us through the glass facade of his practice?
He owns a Model T and other very old cars so we always have a car guy discussion as he prods and pokes and listens to what's going on inside me.
I fear his imminent retirement as where will I find another like him.

As you said Alfisto we meet interesting people.

Ta,

Neville.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
348 Posts
Try cleaning the terminals and connections on the alternator. I was able to get voltage up a bit by doing that, after having some charging issues. There are a couple simple tests to check if there is high voltage drop between the battery and the alternator. I can send you some info if you need it.

Another sweaty one already. More hosing off in store for today. Only thing Alfa related may be a trip to Lowe’s for wire wheels and paint. I battle my nemesis today...the rusty Bilco doors.
Yeah that would be great!

Today's projects are whatever the boss tells me to do. It starts with hanging a TV on the wall in her office.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,773 Posts
13361 - 13380 of 14423 Posts
Top