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Fantasy Junction has a nice looking 71 Euro Super at what is for them a reasonable price. 1971 Alfa Romeo Giulia Super 1600
Car was previously at another retailer in MA. Italy before that.
Andrew
Reasonable? $36k for a Series 2? Nice color combo and seemingly nice condition but $36k?? Wow. That might put nice S1's in concourse shape into the $50k range? Doubtful but watching.
 

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For what it is worth I just checked the current valuation from Hagerty for a 71 Giulia Super. A #1 or Concours car has an average valuation of $58,800. A #2 or Excellent car is valued at $44,100. A #3 or Good car is at $31,700, and a #4 car in Fair condition is at $22,200.

That means if priced accurately this car should be between a #2 and a #3 which from the pictures I think it probably is, but that is up for debate of course.
Bill
 

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I have not seen actual prices supporting those estimates for all but the best S1 cars. Not all MY Supers are created equal. Generally S1 (65-67)>S2 (68-71)>S3 (72-74)>S4 (74-77) and 1300's generally 70% +/- of 1600's. I have no idea where Hagerty gets their pricing from, members declared values??
 

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From prior experience pricing out S2 Spiders, Hagerty and NADA prices were always ahead of the market.
 

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That's a good question - I wasn't sure how Hagerty gets their data either but just went to their website and here is their explanation: https://www.hagerty.com/valuationtools/about-our-prices

Basically they say it is a combination of auction sales, dealer sales that they get the data on, private sales that are reported to them (presumably at the time of purchasing insurance), and insured values. They do take the model year into consideration, and for some cars significant options like an engine upgrade, convertible top, etc.

I am insured by them for both of my classic cars. I initially insured each of the cars for the corresponding purchase price. One car was already restored so I haven't changed the insured amount; but the other one I put about $10K of work into it and therefore later raised the insured amount (and they in turn raised my premium) because I think the car is worth more now than when I purchased it.
Bill
 

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We should keep in mind that Supers and TI's are hardly the kinds of "rare" cars that benefit from value guides. The reason is that with over 500k produced, most in Europe, there is still a substantial amount of cars for sale. The best value guide is the one you do for yourself by checking out European car sales sites like Anamera, Austoscout24, Mobile.de, or Marktplatz. Those sites have real cars with conditions ranging from rust-buckets to absolute first quality examples with real prices attached. In a global marketplace, the best prices are those attached to cars which are competing with other, similar cars. And that's Y'urp.
 

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Yes - I looked on the internet for about 6 months before finding and purchasing my Giulia Super in the US. There is definitely a bigger online supply overseas, and I am sure I paid more here in the US as a result. But I eventually justified it by the fact that I was able to personally inspect my car prior to purchase, and I didn't have to pay to ship it across the ocean either. In the Hagerty link above they say they collect data from around the world but it seems logical that the majority of their data is from the US, and I wonder if US prices tend to be higher than those in Europe for similar reasons that I ran across.
Bill
 

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And Jim, there is enough sales there to actually make a "market" there. Awhile back in this thread I posted data from a day's research on many of the NW Europe sites and there were over 50 Giulias for sale., Most 1300's and Nuovas. Few 1600's, very few S1's. A few heavily modded. I even did price statistical analysis and it revealed nothing like $36k for a good S2 but their prices have risen since I started looking in 2010. In 2010 a good S3 in #4 would go for Euro 8-12k )1300 vs 1600). My superb 2L Pino car was Euro 8200. That would be Euro 20k today. The value of my S1 has doubled also.
 

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I'm a True Believer in the Austrian school of economics which suggests that there is no such thing as intrinsic value. Instead, the Austrians suggest that value is subjective and always subject to negotiation. Simply put Supers become "worth" X when we decide they are worth X. If the pristine Super down the street is selling for $50k and you find an almost identically pristine car in Italy for $30k, you're being asked to pay more for the convenience of buying locally. The fun part is deciding whether the $20k difference is "worth" it.
 

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I'm a True Believer in the Austrian school of economics which suggests that there is no such thing as intrinsic value. Instead, the Austrians suggest that value is subjective and always subject to negotiation. Simply put Supers become "worth" X when we decide they are worth X. If the pristine Super down the street is selling for $50k and you find an almost identically pristine car in Italy for $30k, you're being asked to pay more for the convenience of buying locally. The fun part is deciding whether the $20k difference is "worth" it.
Jim, permit me two follow up observations: Note I didn't pass judgement on the seller's math; I too question whether one could pay the asking price and then pay a shop to restore the car and still have it cost what a car "ready to go" could be bought for. But, the issue is, it seems to me, that the supply of project Supers is in short supply and this one is still in a guy's driveway, quite possibly an original US import model in the state where it was first sold. Not so easy to find, especially if you live in a place where people didn't know what an Alfa was in 1967.
Run all of this through the "Austrian school" and you still have to say that it's hard to find any Giulia worth messing with for under 10k, anymore.
 

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One would have to see in person, but the shell at least looks solid, though he does mention bubbling in the paint, which I guess means it's not recent paint.
Time was I'd have been all over this, but my big project days are kinda behind me. At least that's my feeling just now.
Andrew
 

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But, the issue is, it seems to me, that the supply of project Supers is in short supply and this one is still in a guy's driveway, quite possibly an original US import model in the state where it was first sold. Not so easy to find, especially if you live in a place where people didn't know what an Alfa was in 1967.
I agree, entirely, Jon. My comments were intended to be more generic than specific. Looking at the car, I think someone with knowledge of old Alfas, mechanical skills, and a good workshop could---if everything falls into place when it's supposed to---complete that car for well under the $20k-to-complete estimate.
 

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I don't think one can make a living restoring and selling [nonvintage] Alfas on the open market. You can make a living restoring them if someone's paying you by the hour and doesn't care about the final cost.
This car is attractive because it appears to whole, complete, decent looking paint, and needs mothering, which everyone seems to jump at. But is it economically smarter than buying one done? Probably not. But except at my house, there aren't a lot of Supers to choose from! So one has to pick from what's available.
Andrew
 

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I agree Andrew, unless held for great lengths of time. I bought a few for import that needed only minor work and fettling and made very very little net after the work, TTL S&H. I'd have been better off greeting people at WalMart. NO more of that. I'd rather work on mine.
 

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I fix and sell a fair number of project cars (Alfas and otherwise), but it's hobby gone wrong, not something I need to do to pay the rent; I have a real job. If I come out ahead on my out-of-pocket, I'm happy. If I get anything at all for my labor, time for a party. I just took on a 66 Karmann Ghia, which will put my method to the test.

Andrew
 

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I fix and sell a fair number of project cars (Alfas and otherwise), but it's hobby gone wrong=
Well, you're sure preachin' to choir (at least this one-person version) with this, Andrew. I paid well above market for my Super simply because it satisfied my criteria for finding and then buying the best car I could find. While I could argue that paying above market value for a car isn't what it's "worth", I can say with certainty that it was sure worth it to me. It was exactly what I was looking for, I could afford the price, and so I bought it. I really have no idea---intentionally so---how much I actually have spent changing wheels, building a performance 2 liter, installing a close-ratio gearbox, different seats, etc., etc. because this is all about enjoyment and not business. Is it a "hobby gone wrong"? Probably. But the "wrongness" sure is fun . . . and it's been this much fun for a major part of my life.
 
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