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Discussion Starter #201
There are dozens of Giulia's for sale on the Continent (Y'urp) every day (AutoScout24, MarktPlatz, Mobile, etc.). If we list them all here it could get pretty voluminous and confusing. The main intent here was for US/NA cars for local lookers. I realize it is an international marketplace but I could list dozens every day if international. Just sayin'. Any thoughts on this w/r/t defining the scope to keep it manageable?
 

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In general I think that's a good suggestion. I posted the 4995 one because it seemed cheap, but keeping to this continent for the BB seems a good approach. Special exceptions for real TI Supers, etc.
Andrew
 

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Discussion Starter #203 (Edited)
Robert, having set this thread up and maintaining the list at the front (links), the intent was never to list all “Giulias” for sale worldwide of which there must be hundreds on any given day. The primary focus was on US cars wanted and available which are very few, averaging one publicly every 2+ weeks. For those of us who follow the Giulia market, there are dozens of sites just in Western Europe. I follow about 6 sites every few days where there are 50+ available every day and that is only a handful of the Euro sites. And I don’t bother to look in Italy, Spain, etc. as export and shipping is more difficult. But most folks are not interested in importing due to the risk, unknowns, hassle and added costs. And many cars do not traverse either these sites nor the ABB, they are sold locally by word of mouth, like the two I have sold in the last 2 years. Many of the best and best value cars are not listed but sold locally. If you are interested on one, there is no substitute for enthusiastic searching. If your scope includes Europe, then have at with the many sites. If you expect a robust selection here, you would be mistaken. To expect someone to do that research and posting is foolish and could be costly in terms of what you end up with (the “right” car, cost, condition, or value). I viewed hundreds of cars and inspected many when making my first selection out of Europe, and 4 times since. The market is very thin here. There was no particular marketplace for them here, and that is why I set this thread up but it is really only “mixed grill”. The point is not to romance yourself into thinking that this is "all cars". Some thoughts. B
 

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Discussion Starter #205 (Edited)
Hagerty Price Guude Report

Just perused their latest market report of vintage cars. Hi escalation at the high end and good appreciation sub $100k. A quote: "Hagerty also tracks market performance of 25 of its clients’ most popular cars, and this “Popular” Index showed gains of 3% and is now 5% improved from a year ago. In short, while the top of the market is raging full on, the cars that most people buy are also realizing gains, even if they are minor ones. In practical terms this means that most cars in most cases, if bought with due diligence, look like they will return their purchase price as well as enough to cover operating and ownership expenses when they are sold a few years down the line."

LINK

In my experience a benchmark very nice no-rust driver Giulia, say a 72, went up in Europe from the low-mid 9000 Euros to 12-13,000 in 3 years. That is over 10% per year. The percentage is even higher for the rarest and nicest Gulias.
 

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Discussion Starter #206 (Edited)
Most of these sites (AS24, MP, Mobile) have affiliates in other countries with different cars listed. + The Gallery Brummen, Anamera, the car parts sites have a Giulia from time-to-time, the place in Denmark (Stelvio?). Etc. And that's just NW Europe for the most part.
 

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Discussion Starter #208
La Cross indicates ~ $30k. Except for the fog lights and nice TZ-style wheels, seems pretty nice and original. Don't know about an "original" battery . . . I sold a pristine 70 1300 TI with a 2L and 4.10 in March for a heckuva lot less. Plusses and minuses with the mods. I don't know if I would call $30k a deal with a small selection of pristine early S1 1600 Supers to be had for around that price, but in Y'urp. But a rising tide floats all boats so I wish him well.
 

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That many kliks is like 13K miles. If so, the car is hardly broken in and the kind of car, regardless of make or model, that can bring big money at an auction because of it. Pintos, Biscaynes, whatever, if truly that pristine, they're all worth a lot. I'd think a retail dealer would be aware of that.
Andrew
 

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Discussion Starter #210 (Edited)
Agreed. For the right buyer, a very small % who wants that, that's correct. I just recall how difficult it was for Randy to sell his likewise pristine, 100% original, low mileage and rare (2100 made) 1970 1600S, and the price it went for (ask $25k). Everyone said they did not want a time warp or concourse car and they grumbled about it having "only 1 carb", "not a true Super". (Ha!). A 1300 TI is not all that rare and this one is modified. How times change. But a few do want such a car. And a few also want strip speedos and column shifts. Just not many; a fraction of a fraction. Like Randy's, it will find a home sooner or later when that right person finds it.
 

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We're getting a bit off track, but SCM reinforces over and over, and I agree vicariously, not having been to one, that high-level auctions (Scottsdale, Monterey) are different from all other forms of auto sales, and can for the right car lead to over-the-top prices, like the $100K VW Buses, $140K Giulietta Normale, $15K perfect Alfetta Berlina some years ago, etc. Some of these guys are looking for an as-new car that fits their bill, not necessarily any specific model.
So for a perfect car to get the biggest money, that might be a way to go. It's not a simple task though, transportation, lodging, prep, registration, taking the auction company's advice on pricing, [no] reserve, etc.
Bonhams strongly recommended I'd get best $$ for my dad-bought-new MGA Twin Cam a few years ago at Monterey, but I was going to be out town, didn't trust anyone to deal with it, etc. BaT worked for me in that instance, and maybe I gave up some money as a result. I'll never know.

Andrew
 

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Discussion Starter #212 (Edited)
No Andrew, I think this discussion is right on track for this thread talking about the cars and market variables for a Giulia. Good discussion. Thanks.

I just quickly scoured MP, AS24, Moblie, the Gallery and the Brit place, C&C, referenced above and found some 50 Giulias for sale in NW Europe. Many Nuova's and many 1300's, well more than half. And many under Euro 8000 of which I'd inspect VERY closely. 99% of the time you get what (or less than) you pay for.
 

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Discussion Starter #213 (Edited)
Ok fans, just did a search & count of 6 prominent NW European car sale sites, not including car parts places and e-Bay (or similar sites). Found 148 as follows (broadened one search on Mobile to "all Europe" so >>50) :

AS24.nl - 19
GalleryBrummen .nl - 2
MarktPlaats.nl - 8
Mobile.de - 110 (all Western Europe)
Cars & Classics.uk - 9
Stelvio.dk - 0

1300's - 75 [51%]
Nuova's - 31 (mostly 1300's) [21%]
1600's - 27 [18%, mostly at Mobile]
Other (LPG, 2L, 1750) - 15 [10%]
Some cars on multiple sites.

You can draw your own conclusions. One: mostly 1300's and Nuova's (which are mostly 1300's). Only a few 2l/1750's. Some were Non-op.

Now, there are many variants for these sites in different countries (.de, .be, .fr, etc., etc.). Plus sites in France, Italy, Spain with probably far fewer Giulias for sale. And some "back east". And there are independent brokers who do not list on these sites and private parties on other sale sites. An e-Bay search of Italy alone yields dozens.

Who knows, there may be 200+ or so for sale in Western Europe alone on any given day, but getting a PPI, brokerage and shipping is more difficult from some places.

One final point, there is NO WAY this thread can list and link to them all, at least not this editor. Plus they range from Euro 1000 non-op wrecks to Euro 25k Series 1 Supers, early column shift cars to racers and rally cars, and everything in between. This thread was meant for consolidating ABB members sales, and for observations about spurious Giulias for sale and wanted. If there was a market for a US broker finding European cars, there would be somebody doing it. But if you want to shop for a Giulia in Europe, please feel free to do your own purchase research. It's a lot of work and there is a lot of availability. There is no way to do this frequently here and frankly, not that many people interested in searching for a car in Europe and importing it.
 

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Right, this is a friendly service various of us (you especially) perform, and with these listed contacts, serious folks can do their own searching, especially in Europe. Anamera typically has 10-20 Giulias at any one time too, usually categorized in a scattershot manner, typos and miscategorizations and all.

In the US, the AlfaBB, CL, especially SF, Seattle, LA, and ebay are the primary spots for sedan ads. In Canada, kijiji (sp) seems to be the big venue. A Seattle guy just got a great deal on a beige cava 72 Berlina on Hemmings, really a steal on a car I knew firsthand when it was in the Bay Area, so check there too.

If you can figure out how to do a national CL search, that would be effective.

Andrew
 

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Discussion Starter #215 (Edited)
If it were only a handful, it might be possible, but only if folks were interested in importing one and had the means at hand. But most will pass on this fun. But at 150, or even more if one canvassed further, it is just impossible.

The point is not to think that seeing one or two foreign cars posted here is the "available market". The above shows IT IS NOT. You would be cheating yourself, and cheating yourself of the comparative market information if you do not do your homework.

PS: Not to mention Andrew that many (or most?) cars are sold off-market amongst local (or distant) club members, friends, enthusiasts and fellow Alfisti.

PSS: the stark contrast is the 200-300 available in Western Europe EVERY DAY compared to one here in the US/NA every 2-3 weeks if even that. I imagine the numbers are similarly low in AUS.
 

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Discussion Starter #216
Yea, checked Anamera worldwide (all but 2 W. Europe). Had 19 Giulias: 9 - 1300's, 2 - Nuova's, 6 - 1600's, 2 - others (reportedly "TI Supers"). I recognized some from other sites and one of the TI Super clones posted here earlier. I'd say it's safe to say there are a couple hundred plus for sale in Europe every day. Nearly as many as running in NA on Andrew's Giulia register.
 

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When new most Giulias were sold in Italy and due to the sale tax percentage was based on engine size most were 1300s (costing about 25% less than a 1600). The annual owner tax was also based on engine size. This was also the case in France, another market were Alfas were popular.
Anyway, I see the difficulties and experiences if anybody in NA is to see, test and buy a car in Europe. I helped a few years back someone from Texas to buy a Giulia in Denmark (Stelvio) for a modest fee. Perhaps by contacting the various AR Clubs in Europe you NAs could find someone near a potential candidate to perform a check and test drive of it. Most (all) of the clubs have "Classico Registers" with members with the knowledge for such a check and drive.
Erik
 

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What a novel idea !!

Someone should try this !
 

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Discussion Starter #219 (Edited)
I don't know Randy, sending a big check off to a to a little known person for an unseen car. Then dealing with uncertain shipping, Customs and import hassles . . . You go first . . . .

Eric, thanks for the offer. Very nice. Stelvio has a nice Giulia from time to time. Had a stunning dark Dutch blue car a year ago or so.

The irony in this is that while finding a Giulia in NA, especially a nice one, is like sucking a basketball up with a straw, finding one in Europe is overwhelming, like taking a drink from a fire hose. There are so many to consider it is confusing, let alone getting to a PPI. Lots of "shiny $hit" out there. Once again, many of the best cars and deals are locally by/between enthusiasts. I suspect that without this European "buffering" effect of so many Giulias, that NA Guilia prices would soar like GTV prices in Europe with not many left. But as stated above, Euro prices are escalating pretty well IMO with a premium on top cars.

So after a European side-trip here, back to the relatively boring domestic scene . . . but you can look and wish . . . .

I hope the posting silence here is digestion and not just, yawn, boredom . . . sorry if so but it shows how we (our markets) are interconnected via scarcity, risk, supply and demand.
 

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One thing in all this. All the Giulias sold new in the US were 1600s, both in TI and Super form. 1600 Supers is what the overwhelming majority of American buyers want, in my experience.
As Bruce and others have pointed out, most of the half million Giulias built were 1300s in one form or another, for cost and tax reasons. So most of the cars you'll find in Europe fit that description. Yes many now have 1750s and 2000s, but folks like the trim, dash, upholstery, etc. of the first-series 1600 Super, getting hard to find now.

Andrew
 
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