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"they are controlled by unpredictable and irrational drivers"

Well, thank you. So... people who drive automatics are the only drivers who are rational, lol?
 

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"they are controlled by unpredictable and irrational drivers"

Well, thank you. So... people who drive automatics are the only drivers who are rational, lol?
Logical fallacy of course. If A then B is not equivalent to if B then A. Proves my point rather neatly eh?

There are some things an automatic transmission won't do that a human can get a manual shift transmission to do.

And, yes, all humans are unpredictable and irrational. The car was not invented by a rational person. Certainly a rational person would never invent an airplane.

It is a fact that most inventions that lack rationality have been invented by men. This has lead some, usually men, to conclude that men are inherently more inventive. This is not the case. Men are inherently more irrational than women.....
 

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The internal combustion engine is so 19th century technology. Current automatic transmissions are just a band-aids to make it seem acceptable in the 21st century. It's all history... The future is self driving electric vehicles. Nobody will want current automatic transmission cars in the future. The true collectibles will be manual transmission cars. They will be the ones that true enthusiasts and conoscenti will want.
 

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"Proves my point rather neatly eh?"

Well, it was your colloquial implication, wasn't it, eh?

"And, yes, all humans are unpredictable and irrational"

Comes from thinking and observing.

The rest of your statement could be considered questionable in some respects.

Having one of those days?

Meanwhile, irrational or not, I enjoy driving a manual shift car more than a boring automatic. It's a life some of us choose, lol. C'est la vie.
 

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The internal combustion engine is so 19th century technology. Current automatic transmissions are just a band-aids to make it seem acceptable in the 21st century. It's all history... The future is self driving electric vehicles. Nobody will want current automatic transmission cars in the future. The true collectibles will be manual transmission cars. They will be the ones that true enthusiasts and conoscenti will want.
Keep your favourite manual car for the future and drive electric when its time for that.

Many people here ( in the forum) will find electric just wonderful because they never have to stop at petrol stations any more to fill up the tank. Electric is much cheaper, which is quite popular here, even if the electric motor is not quite. Service cost almost zero. However already on present cars we have electric steering and brakes, plus all the Electronic management, so just the petrol engine has to be changed and then you are there. :)
 

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peakay

Keep your favourite manual car for the future and drive electric when its time for that.

Many people here ( in the forum) will find electric just wonderful because they never have to stop at petrol stations any more to fill up the tank. Electric is much cheaper, which is quite popular here, even if the electric motor is not quite. Service cost almost zero. However already on present cars we have electric steering and brakes, plus all the Electronic management, so just the petrol engine has to be changed and then you are there. :)
Agree with all of the above! We drive electric cars for the day to day stuff and they are great -- no warm up, lock automatically, keyless, quiet, smooth, torque galore. Then I jump in the alfa for when I want to be involved and entertained, which is usually the weekends and a day during the week.
 

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Not for me — long way to go before electric would make sense. My electricity at home is not nuclear, solar, wind, hydro etc., so not much cleaner. I do a lot of driving, so range is a major issue. If I want or need to go somewhere, I don’t want to have to take the route that has the charging stations — I want to go the way I want to go. If you have to wait on line at a charging station, you could be there a very long time. And so on... Finally, electric cars don’t have manual gearboxes ?
 

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Well, being friends with people who have Teslas, and even the electric Fiat 500, I can say that, yes, the cars do need to be "refilled", esp on a trip of any length, and which takes a lot more time than filling a gas tank; and so far, the electricity in most real life cases is not free or pollution free (unless your electricity comes from hydropower, and even that has many costs) to someone. Usually, if free, it is subsidized, paid for by someone else.

As for the attributes, yes, quiet, actually too quiet, as the Feds are thinking of requiring that they make noise to alert pedestrians. Keyless? Who cares about something so trivial. Smooth, oh yes, and very fast. So? I'm not racing anyone. Warm up? By the time I'm out of the driveway, the engines in my Alfas are warm enough for decent driving. Been that way for many many thousands of miles and years with Alfas with no ill effects. Once again, I'm not racing.

After spending days riding in these cars, I'm personally convinced that, as appliances, yes, they could be Camrys. However, life is too short to be bored so much.

Would I buy one? No, although we do like the Tesla S in general; however, since we take long trips, having to stop once in a while for an hour or two (at least) for recharging, as my friend with the Tesla X had to do on his drive from Vancouver, BC to Boise, Idaho had to do, adding hours to the drive, not the most viable or useful car for people like us. Hard to beat a gas or diesel powered car for distance driving.
 

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Hard to beat a gas or diesel powered car for distance driving.
yep, thats why i take a gas car for long trips, but thats only 1-2 times a year. I prefer to get a cheap rent a car I can put large miles on and turn in dirty. :)
 

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Lol, every time we do that, we are on roads which could be great fun if driving a handling car such as one of our Alfas. We always end up saying to each other, gee, I wish we had an Alfa, or other sporty car, instead of the boring automatic equipped car we are forced to rent. And these days, rentals are not cheap, even for clunkers. Lately, we've been shocked at the rates, and we've rented cars many times through the decades.

At least in Italy, we were able to rent a manual equipped diesel Alfa Giulietta. Much more fun.
 

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yep, thats why i take a gas car for long trips, but thats only 1-2 times a year. I prefer to get a cheap rent a car I can put large miles on and turn in dirty. :)
Seems California thinks and acts more like Europe. Same strategy here electric for local driving but petrol or Diesel for the long haul. Would also mention that most people who have expensive electric also have a couple of combustion engine cars, so they can pick the car that most suitable for a specific trip.

A Ferrari/ Lamborghini dealer here told they had sold out all their last years top models and when asked why people bought such polluting cars, well the answer was: all of them already had an electric car, so they wanted to have fun in their spare time, trackdays etc.
 

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Lol, every time we do that, we are on roads which could be great fun if driving a handling car such as one of our Alfas. We always end up saying to each other, gee, I wish we had an Alfa, or other sporty car, instead of the boring automatic equipped car we are forced to rent. And these days, rentals are not cheap, even for clunkers. Lately, we've been shocked at the rates, and we've rented cars many times through the decades.
I hear ya, but I take rental cars when I need to grind out tons of miles, not when i expect interesting roads. Would take the alfa or BMW for that. Maybe its our market, but I get rental cars so cheap its hard to justify driving our own when factoring in mileage depreciation, better MPG and wear/tear.

Seems California thinks and acts more like Europe. A Ferrari/ Lamborghini dealer here told they had sold out all their last years top models and when asked why people bought such polluting cars, well the answer was: all of them already had an electric car, so they wanted to have fun in their spare time, trackdays etc.
Yep! My Alfa with loud exhaust and manual is like running a vintage race but at sane speeds around town. I'd argue its more fun -- so hard to get modern cars, let alone supercars up near their limits.

Let's return this to the topic - wingeing about no Manual Giulia. I really wish they'd bring it here. I'd buy.
 

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Seems California thinks and acts more like Europe. Same strategy here electric for local driving but petrol or Diesel for the long haul. Would also mention that most people who have expensive electric also have a couple of combustion engine cars, so they can pick the car that most suitable for a specific trip.

A Ferrari/ Lamborghini dealer here told they had sold out all their last years top models and when asked why people bought such polluting cars, well the answer was: all of them already had an electric car, so they wanted to have fun in their spare time, trackdays etc.
California is up to just under 4% per annum market penetration by BEV (battery electric vehicle). PHEV are not EV but fossil fuel powered battery carriers. California leads the USA in BEV registrations by about double the next State. This is with heavy monetary and regulatory subsidies skewing the market in favour of BEV and PHEV. Nationwide EV market penetration is under 1% of all new car registrations.

For clarity, even in California at current sales levels more than 96% of new car registrations are cars with a fossil fuel engine as its primary or only Powertrain. Elsewhere the proportion is 99%.

Completely crazy to think EV will ever be popular anywhere in North America. A solution in search of a problem to solve.

Marchionne was very clear that there was absolutely no market for EV worth pursuing anywhere. Hence FCA put its development money into the Giulia and similar fossil fuelled cars. Considered in that light the market for manual gearbox Giulias was more than double the market available for EV Alfas and FCA still rejected that market.

Says it all about the future of EV.
 

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Seems California thinks and acts more like Europe. Same strategy here electric for local driving but petrol or Diesel for the long haul. Would also mention that most people who have expensive electric also have a couple of combustion engine cars, so they can pick the car that most suitable for a specific trip.

A Ferrari/ Lamborghini dealer here told they had sold out all their last years top models and when asked why people bought such polluting cars, well the answer was: all of them already had an electric car, so they wanted to have fun in their spare time, trackdays etc.
California is up to just under 4% per annum market penetration by BEV (battery electric vehicle). PHEV are not EV but fossil fuel powered battery carriers. California leads the USA in BEV registrations by about double the next State. This is with heavy monetary and regulatory subsidies skewing the market in favour of BEV and PHEV. Nationwide EV market penetration is under 1% of all new car registrations.

For clarity, even in California at current sales levels more than 96% of new car registrations are cars with a fossil fuel engine as its primary or only Powertrain. Elsewhere the proportion is 99%.

Completely crazy to think EV will ever be popular anywhere in North America. A solution in search of a problem to solve.

Marchionne was very clear that there was absolutely no market for EV worth pursuing anywhere. Hence FCA put its development money into the Giulia and similar fossil fuelled cars. Considered in that light the market for manual gearbox Giulias was more than double the market available for EV Alfas and FCA still rejected that market.

Says it all about the future of EV.
Wait... this is the guy who lambasts manual enthusiasts for being stuck in the past? Don’t think about where EVs are - think about where they are going. And where they are going is into cars that will set lap records and quick charge in 10 minutes flat with all the weight on the floor. Auto transmissions- any transmission other than direct drive EV will be a relic in 30 years.
 

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If Marichonne had directed this then the Tonale wouldn’t exist, and wouldn’t be going on sale next year (on the last day of Dec. no doubt, ha). I’m looking forward to it.

In the meantime I’m considering a TCT Gulietta QV (or derv.) or Stelvio (I’m not getting into the manual/auto debate, it’s silly) - I like hatches, not sedans, can’t stand red.
 

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Yes, Alfa is going hybrid and electric in the future also. It has been predicted that manufactureres who only make combustion engines will have to close.

Volkswagen which owns Audi and Porsche has announced that they will not develop combustion engine cars after 2026 and stop producing combustion cars by 2030. According to their forecast. The Japanese have also indicated they will go the same direction.

https://www.electrive.com/2018/12/04/volkswagen-to-stop-building-on-fossil-fuel-engines-from-2026/

That Michael Smith who has preached how wonderful the Automatic is, does not realize that this already is a solution for the past is surprising!

As mentioned here later battery cars will have a charging time of 15 minutes and a range of 300mls or more, development is going on. When the solution is good enough for practicality the fossile cars will be banned by legislation, not by market decision.

Anyway, I am not at all against manual cars, as I they are my favourite also, so I am keeping a couple of them also. However Alfa is not going to produce any signifcant car with manual any more, rather going in direction of electric. No debate here will change that!
 

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I like three pedals!! but if Google has their way you won't be driving. no pedals just a seat and a panic handle
 

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Wait... this is the guy who lambasts manual enthusiasts for being stuck in the past? Don’t think about where EVs are - think about where they are going. And where they are going is into cars that will set lap records and quick charge in 10 minutes flat with all the weight on the floor. Auto transmissions- any transmission other than direct drive EV will be a relic in 30 years.
ROFL

Not lambasting anyone. Pointing out that refusing to buy the Giulia just because there is no manual transmission available makes no sense at all.

I have a solution though. Vote in congressmen who will provide a significant subsidy to car makers offering a manual transmission option. Based on market demand there is a stronger case for subsidizing the manual transmission than the EV.

EV technology has not significantly improved in several decades. (Energy density of gasoline is still about 100 times higher than EV batteries. The much touted Tesla carries around 1,000 lbs of batteries whether they are charged or not). EV development has completely stalled. Only government action keeps the technology in the market.
 
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