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Sergio,

may I ask you a question. What is the biggest company you worked for in manufacturing? 3000-5000 employees? Do you know how model line is built in a big companies as FCA?

FCA might asked you about manual gearbox, if you were in their target group, about 9 years ago, when they started to think about future model line. When Sergio Cravero was in charge of Alfa he used to asked alfisti about desirable model line thorough forum (alfisti.com) and direct meetings with clubs in Italy. Sergio Cravero mentioned at alfisti.com in 2008 that rwd car can be made, it was just a question who will buy it and at what market (I think I still have a copy of his post in my computer).

Since then a lot of things have changed in FCA marketing, they try to find trends, forecast them, and do real time changes. Just look what happened with Chrysler 200C and Dodge Dart. Look at Chrysler model line, take a look at Maserati sales (Levante vs Ghibli proportion).

FCA can sacrifice HUGE investments. They want to follow trends.

Alfa Romeo is a part of FCA business, 226000 employees, if the decision was made there is no chance to change it.

Young Canadians who are in charge of Alfa Romeo do not care about classic oriented buyers. It is not in their culture to understand Alfisti. They are Dodge guys, or just sales men, for them do not matter what to sell, Alfa Romeo or Chrysler Pacifica.

Alfa Romeo Giulia was not done by passion, by traditions, it was done by marketing research. Passion and traditions are marketing tools nowadays.

I hope I was clear.

P.S. Sorry English is not my first language
 

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Forgot to mention. Diesels are dying also. Manual + Diesel is the most popular combination in EU. First will die small diesels, 1.3 in FCA model line. Euro 7 is coming in EU in 2021. Small petrol turbo + hybrid will substitute them.

Then will be a time to sacrifice middle (1.6) and medium (2.0) size diesels that are sold with manuals mostly. It will be in 2025-27.

About 2030 we will see diesel in trucks (commercial transport) only. In 2030 about 30% of cars will be electric. In 2020-25 about 20% of FCA model line will be plug-in cars. I do not know any modern technology that combine manual gearbox and hybrid.

Above are just facts from press releases and interview. I think anyone can make a conclusion what will happened with manual gearboxes very very soon
 

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Discussion Starter #43
Ciao Max,

You just don't get it and this will be my last response to your questions.

It appears that you have been brain washed by what the market forces impose on you and you just seem to justified it because it's what the perceived masses want. Fortunately, I'll remain an individual and decide what the hell I want.

Just as an example of market forces, I'm an avid mountain biker and the norm was 26' wheels, then some marketer decided that 29' wheels ought to be the normal so that they could sell more bikes but then MTB'ers complained of their performance for some applications so they opted for 27.5' wheels and sold another **** load of new bikes, now they've decided to go back to 29'!! Important to note that there was nothing wrong with 26' wheels in the first place so at some point I'm not sure what the industry will do to keep up sales figures as there's general perception of consumers that it's all hog wash. Note that I accept that this is the way of life today but it donesn't necessarily mean that I have to agree with it.

Just for your information I work for a global logistics company with 15,000 employees and have being dealing directly with the likes of the Fiat and Piaggio groups for many years, plus had the opportunity to visit their manufacturing lines in person. Of course Alfa needs to produce cars for the mass market so that they can remain viable in the future but at the same time the marketers always keep a very close eye on public feedback.

The be honest Alfa should also have an electric car in their range and the Stelio SUV can't come soon enough for the crowd that want them. What I'm trying to gauge is how many Alfisti are out there are holding back, or not even not contemplating buying a Giulia because there's no manual. It's a pretty simple question and you seem to be just hijacking this thread for your our personal reasons. Just start you're own thread about the benefits of auto, I couldn't care.

I WOULD LIKE A MANUAL GIULIA PLEASE and couldn't care if I sound like a spoilt bastard because in the end I'm a consumer.

Saluti
Sergio
 

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Thank you Sergio for the clarification. Probably I am a brain washed:)

The personal reason is I injured my back by fitness, almost can not be active. So I just drink a wine and have a good conversation with a guy from another part of the World. It is always a pleasure to talk with Alfisto.
We have our own opinions and I really admire your point of view.
I agree with you, Alfa should keep manual for high performance cars, as a niche model, probably as a Specialty, customers probably should pay for a pleasure to drive manual.

But in my opinion, it is always better to buy true classic from Alfa. Spider, GTV6, Giulia and Giulietta are still relatively cheap. Real classic that keep value.

Anyway it was a pleasure

Ciao,
Max
 

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I have only driven manual transmission Alfa Romeo cars since 1968. I would like to buy a manual Giulia QV Coupe in the US but, I believe that all Alfa Romeo cars that are sent to the US will have paddle type transmissions. I also believe that gasoline powered cars will gradually disappear and will be replaced by electric or fuel cell powered cars. I like my gasoline powered cars and will drive them as long as possible.
 

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Just wait until autonomous cars are forced upon us ...

I will be saying get ****ed and sticking with my 2001 156v6 and 1971 GTV.
Pete
 

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WOW! Popular argument, err, I mean thread. Almost 50 posts in just one day. I'd like to comment on almost every single post, but I won't.

To get back to the OP for a second, I to would like to see a Giulia with a manual trans, but I've accepted the fact that this just won't happen, not now, maybe never. I've been driving sticks since I was eight or so and I'm 59 now. Perhaps this is why I have multiple cars, with different types of setups.

The 2017 Giulia is a saloon. No matter how much performance AR puts into it, no matter how many upgrades the consumer (that's you, the reader) adds to it, it will still be a SALOON. It's a luxury car. Think in terms of opera car.

Alfa Romeo is in financial straights. They need the Giulia and the Stelvio to reach as many consumers as possible if they want to stay in business. The six-on-the-floor won't entice the masses. 90% of the consumers want an automatic transmission. They don't want to be engaged in the act of driving.


  • Now, in my case, I've got a 240z with a stick. It's my dedicated track car.
  • I've got my 4C with a dual clutch paddle shift. She's my daily driver. Think in terms of street legal race car.
  • We, my wife and I, share a 2017 Giulia Ti Q2. Even if it was available with a stick, my wife won't/can't drive a stick. In order to share this car, it must be auto-shift.
  • My wife has her Fiat 500 C as her daily driver. 100 hp w/auto. Bah. Not for me, but perfect for her.
  • An ugly old work truck when I want to haul stuff.
Our use with our Giulia will be somewhat limited and absolutely shared. For us, she (the Giulia) will be more of a GT (Grand Touring) car than anything else. She's big enough that we can take our luggage with us. She's fast and responsive with plenty of reserved power for passing on the uphill. She's nimble enough to go zipping through the winding mountain passes with ease and confidence. And since none of our other cars can comfortably hold more than two, well, that's what the extra doors are all about.

I realize that not everybody is in a position to have a car for every occasion. If I was in a position where I could only have one car, and that car had to be multi-functioning, I'd probably pick the Giulia and start modifying it. Actually, I have been in this singular position in my past life. I found that the now extinct station wagon made for the best one-car-fits-all.
 

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Hah, its interesting that the oldest guy here, me, wants the most modern solutions! :) I respect anybodys choice of car type as their own Choice, no comment on that, however I have not seen any tester like the manual transmission. so that could be a good incentive to try it first before committing!

By the way I think Chris Harris is a brilliant car tester, enthusiastic and knowledgeable, and loves Alfa. So I think that previous sour comment falls to the ground as insignificant! Grow up guys!

With regards to the stick shift on the Q RHD version, GB definitely will only market the paddle shift version. Checked also South Africa but even as their sales info says they have manual transmission, in a test here they are also telling that the paddle shift version will be marketed.
So maybe it could be cleared what is actually sold there!

Here a S.A. test of the Quadrifoglio manual LHD version.

[Updated] Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio (2016) First Drive - Cars.co.za

Here SA RHD brochure on the gearbox: It says manual, but not sure its correct!

Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio | Sports Cars | Alfa Romeo ZA

G.
 

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Discussion Starter #50
Ciao Chaps,

Please note that you're still missing the point of this thread!
I have multiple cars and they're all manuals, but who really cares.....absolutely no one, plus don't care what peoples preferences are, or what testers and journos say.

I'm trying to assist AR in determining how many buyers like me are holding off buying a Giulia because they want a manual and couldn't care what's it's like because we just want a manual.

Note that I'm talking about the minority which still makes up the numbers, and keep in mind that 5% is still a big number. Also note that it's not like AR haven't produced the manual, it's already being produced currently which would suit all variants.

I hope we can remain on point.

Grazie1000
Sergio
 

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I mean, really ALFA ROMEO! You've got the darned manual already. Just built a few and send then over here. They will sell.
 

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I personally would choose the manual version unless the manual was incredibly awful (which I can`t believe) Quite honestly for a road car who cares if the car is slower by two poofteenths of a second to 100kph. It is the shear pleasure of changing gears manually that I like, otherwise you may as well sit in front of a video game and "E-Drive" the car. In fact if you think about it really the car is too fast for the road anyway nowadays. I wonder how many are going to kill themselves with the fastest versions as they drive well beyond their capabilities after all we would all be tempted to try full wack sometime wouldn`t we otherwise what`s the point of one? I`m one of those owners who get as much pleasure changing gear in our `63 Fiat 500 (non synchro box) as our Ferrari with usual gated shift which is not easy to master - try letting someone else drive either of these cars - we had to stop one motoring journalist. It is all about feel, a totally tactile experience and sound which makes a car stand out and lets face it all it takes is another manufacturer to introduce a revised car or new model with more computing power to make a faster better handling car which then wins over the fickle journalists and public. Even though I can afford one I don`t think I`ll be lining up but if I did it would be manual.
 

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I mean, really ALFA ROMEO! You've got the darned manual already. Just built a few and send then over here. They will sell.
This.

It is not like we are talking about Honda or Nissan, etc. but Alfa [email protected]! supposed to be a true drivers car (a becoming very old fashioned concept I guess) ... out of all manufacturers this is the one that should always have a manual car as a purchasing option, even if GM (shudder) made the gearbox.
Pete
 

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I want to add some data, sales data. Let's use Italy as a example.
May 2017. Total sales 1409 = Giulia 1374 + QV 35.
I think we can compare US and Italian sales.

So we are talking about 400 QV per year in US. Let's say that sales of manual version might be about 10%, 40 cars per year. Giula life span is about 6-7 years.
So, we are talking about maximum 300-400 cars. Cars that require service network, inventory of spare parts, employee trainings, promo materials etc..


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Max,

I know that out of all places in the world, Americans are supposedly a fan of automatic transmissions, but I believe as we are talking about Alfisti buying QV's your 10% is low. If it was offered it would sell and sell well, and no Alfisti owner would complain about the gear change ... heck some bought the 159 with a GM, of course crap, gearbox. Personally I won't touch a 159 because I know it is largely a GM car that Alfa have tried to improve.

What concerns me the most, and gee I'm glad I don't live over there and had to suffer this drought of my favourite car brand, is that the people that are selling the car don't appear to understand what they are selling or who they are selling to. Alfisti are considerably more passionate about their cars than most other car people, and are well and truly prepared to suffer all sorts of issues, mocking from others, etc. to own an Alfa ... my family, for example, have laughed at me for over 30 years now :)
Pete
 

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Alfa Romeo is in financial straights. They need the Giulia and the Stelvio to reach as many consumers as possible if they want to stay in business. The six-on-the-floor won't entice the masses. 90% of the consumers want an automatic transmission. They don't want to be engaged in the act of driving.
This is absolutely spot on. Alfa will cease as a brand if the Giulia and Stevlio fail. Being Italian myself, I don't want to see that happen. Of course, the majority of people in the USA won't bother with a manual for any car (yes, even an Alfa). And Alfa has to appeal to more than just the old Alfisti who currently have old Alfa's (like me). They need to sell at bare minimum 15,000-20,000 cars PER YEAR here. If every single person registered to the ALFABB forum bought one, it'd be a drop in the bucket to that number. They need to win over people currently buying BMW, Audi, MB, and even Infiniti and Lexus. I know this is a generalization, but most people who buy those cars just want them as a status symbol that has some performance, and couldn't care less about a manual transmission.

That being said, making a manual QV available as a special order is no skin off Alfa's nose. They can stock all automatics and for those of us who want a stick shift, we can just order it and wait for it to arrive.
 

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Totally agree. Every time I turn on the TV i see BMW, Audi, MB commercials. Alfa? Once in a while. It seems they haven't learned the lessons of 20-30 years ago. Brand recognition, people!

And Fiat appears to have completely given up advertising for the 500. The 124 gets very l ittle.
 

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15-20000 is a good number, they will sell more. New models are coming, E-SUV is already confirmed for 2018, will be built at Grugliasco, the same platform as Levante has. As we all know it is good developed Chrysler LX platform, based on Mercedes E. Hope Alfa will have own engines, not modified Pentastar from Maserati.

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I'd like to see a new Giulietta that is a slightly lower price point. Think premium compact like a VW GTI, or Mini Cooper S. I have a sneaky suspicion they'd sell a bunch of those here, regardless of transmission.

And, they'd introduce the brand to some younger people (who have less money, for now) and get them to be repeat customers.
 
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