[GregSef]

I have been working very slowly on this for a while. I am going to tune 2 motors on a SuperFlow engine dyno. As near as I can tell no one has run any V6's on an engine dyno, only chassis Dyno's. (If I am wrong please fill me in)

So in a nutshell, I need to adapt a flywheel that will take a 7-1/4" Tilton Style pressure plate for the drive adaptor and then come up with a bell housing that can be used to bolt to the Dyno adaptor.

Plan A is to machine a standard transaxle flywheel to accept the Tilton style pressure plate with a projected registration diameter and the bolt circle.
Also I will need to cut the tail off a transaxle Bellhousing and Weld on a plate which has a concentric hole on the engine centerline and a couple bolt holes for the Dyno mount. This way a standard starter works and my headers fit.

Plan B Is a bit more sketchy and involves getting my hands on a inexpensive 164 manual trans flywheel and Bellhousing. Then I will need to machine in the same Tilton setup. ( A lot easier on this flywheel) Also I will need to bolt or weld an adaptor plate onto the Bellhousing. This will also be easier due to the hole already centered in the Bellhousing.
A problem with this is that I will need to get a 164 style starter.

Question: Will a 164 style flywheel fit into a transaxle Bellhousing and will the transaxle style starter work on it?

No matter what I will be running these motors with flywheels that are not balanced to the motors. Issues for a days running?

If I am successful with this kit I would consider loaning it out with a deposit if anyone is interested in following the same route.

I really don't like tuning on chassis Dyno's.

Greg

 

[Gabor K.]

We did engine dyno because of several reasons that time: wanted to be sure that engine and engine management worked properly before install, and the shop did not have rolling road dyno. Although the 3L engine was balanced out with the 2,5L flywheel for use in the GTV6 the engineer wanted to use the original 3L 164 flywheel, so we just delivered the engine with separate 164 flywheel and the engineer did the installation suiting his engine dyno. He said he had the framework to support the engine and wanted a flwh. to connect to a clutch he had. So that was it!

Engine before shipment:

GK.

 

[alfavulcan]

164 flywheel is same diameter as gtv6-milano, also same ring gear for starter

 

[GregSef]

We did engine dyno because of several reasons that time: wanted to be sure that engine and engine management worked properly before install, and the shop did not have rolling road dyno. Although the 3L engine was balanced out with the 2,5L flywheel for use in the GTV6 the engineer wanted to use the original 3L 164 flywheel, so we just delivered the engine with separate 164 flywheel and the engineer did the installation suiting his engine dyno. He said he had the framework to support the engine and wanted a flwh. to connect to a clutch he had. So that was it!

Engine before shipment:

GK.

Do you have any pictures of the motor on the Dyno?

Greg

 

[GregSef]

164 flywheel is same diameter as gtv6-milano, also same ring gear for starter

Well that's good to know. I imagine it should only be used on the later model crankshaft that is used with what people call the thin pad flywheels.

To bad I sold my 164 flywheel a while back.

Greg

 

[Gabor K.]

Do you have any pictures of the motor on the Dyno?

Greg

No, sorry but we had just to deliver the engine and 164 flwh, and the guy made the measurments inbetween other customer´s 1000 hp turbo engines. This engine hardly made output in comparison!

You can get an impression from photos from the shop, maybe it tells you something?

A photo how he connected another engine in a cradle, connected to the dyno, no bellhousing necessary:

V.S Motor - Vidar Strand - Pictures

GK.

 

[kredden]

Greg,

I may have a 164 flywheel from when I put the 164 engine into my Milano if you need it.

Kevin

 

[GregSef]

Greg,

I may have a 164 flywheel from when I put the 164 engine into my Milano if you need it.

Kevin

Hi Kevin, If its a manual trans flywheel than yes I can use it. Let me know if you have it and we'll work something out.

Greg

 

[kredden]

Greg,

How do you tell the difference (didn't know there was one)? I got the engine years ago and had no idea what type of 164 it came out of.

Kevin

 

[PSk]

If I am successful with this kit I would consider loaning it out with a deposit if anyone is interested in following the same route

I don't think this would work, because ever dyno is probably slightly different, and I don't understand the issue. Definitely done many times before.

Every engine can be fitted to an engine dyno and that is the dyno places problem, that you pay for of course.

Your flywheel is attached to the gearbox? ... How is the assembly balanced with the crank?

Why do you need a bell housing?

Surely you can just chuck on a flywheel that has been balanced with your rotating assembly (important IMO) and chuck the engine at the dyno place and the rest is their problem. Just add $'s.
Pete

 

[Alfanatiker]

This engine has probably more than 100 runs in a dyno. We tested different fuels, adjustable cam gears, octane boosters and a lot of things.

It's a 75 3,0 Verde.

It maxed out at 218 bhp at 6150 rpm. All original mechanics, but we made some adjustable cam pulleys, and used a stand alone ecu.

 

[kredden]

Here is the flywheel that I dug up (Part number 195.45.02.400.00).

Kevin

 

[Gabor K.]

I am afraid its not the part, propbably for the Automatic Transmission. The flwh should have facing for clutch Assembly.

I found some photos from another Project here: Should look more like that one!

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/milano-75-1985-1993/376017-another-3-2-gta-engine-gtv6.html

GK.

 

[kredden]

Yeah, that is quite different!

Kevin

 

[GregSef]

I don't think this would work, because ever dyno is probably slightly different, and I don't understand the issue. Definitely done many times before.

Every engine can be fitted to an engine dyno and that is the dyno places problem, that you pay for of course.

Your flywheel is attached to the gearbox? ... How is the assembly balanced with the crank?

Why do you need a bell housing?

Surely you can just chuck on a flywheel that has been balanced with your rotating assembly (important IMO) and chuck the engine at the dyno place and the rest is their problem. Just add $'s.
Pete

If someone has put a V6 motor on an engine Dyno in the United States no one I know or have talked to knows about it. Unlike Europe, South Africa and Oz, the V6 Alfa Romeo's have not made it to the track in any real numbers compared to the 4 cylinder cars. Almost any vintage race sports a few 4 cylinder cars. Club racing has a few (SCCA), the showroom stock class had a few cars. Vintage almost none and LeMons racing about 8 to 10. Not a lot. I would love to be wrong about this because then I could contact whomever ran a V6 on an engine Dyno and use their adaptors.

SuperFlow has the biggest chunk of the engine Dyno installed base in the states and that's what my guy has.

Paying for the Engine builder / dyno shop to adapt my motor to his setup gets expensive very fast. I have access to everything I need to do the job. And I am a bit of a control freak, so my destiny is in my hands not the dyno shops.

My flywheel is a lightened one that was balanced to my custom rotating assembly along with the front pulley.

I have the drawings from SuperFlow on their adaptor plate. Trying to use the standard transaxle engine flywheel with an adaptor plate to bolt on the drive disc that the dyno's splined shaft goes through won't work. That's because the height of all that is much to great.

So I will make a custom bellhousing from a transaxle style bellhousing and use either a cut down conventional transaxle flywheel or a 164 flywheel. Either way will not be correctly balance to my motor, but I will wing it for the Dyno runs. The dyno require a rear engine plate to bolt to the dyno, it has a registration diameter that gets the drive adaptor to be concentric.

What I should have done was to have worked this all out before I had my motors balanced. But it is to late for that.

However at this point I am still brainstorming.

Greg

 

[GregSef]

This engine has probably more than 100 runs in a dyno. We tested different fuels, adjustable cam gears, octane boosters and a lot of things.

It's a 75 3,0 Verde.

http://youtu.be/_qh-PlCfDdg

http://youtu.be/GxtYbf9mfaw

http://youtu.be/XXv9KaDPhag


It maxed out at 218 bhp at 6150 rpm. All original mechanics, but we made some adjustable cam pulleys, and used a stand alone ecu.

Nice setup. It looks pretty well instrumented.

Greg

 

[Gabor K.]

As previous photo from VS Motor shows of a set up, its not necessary to make a bellhousing for the installation!

Maybe Alfanatiker has some photos of his set up, concerning the connection of his engine to the dyno?

Engine dynos:

http://www.superflow.com/Dynamometers/Engine/index.php

GK.

 

[Alfanatiker]

As previous photo from VS Motor shows of a set up, its not necessary to make a bellhousing for the installation!

Maybe Alfanatiker has some photos of his set up, concerning the connection of his engine to the dyno?

Engine dynos:

SuperFlow Engine Dynamometer

GK.

Yes I do (and just to clarify, Fredrik was the owner of this engine).










And a bonus V6 picture...

 

[Gabor K.]

Thanks, thats what I thought, I am sure VS motor did the same thing: used or made an adaptor plate to support the rear of the engine and used the clutch type flywheel as the transaxle flwh. cannot be used in this application!

GK.

 

[horsewidower]

PSK asked many of the questions that I would.

Have you picked your engine dyno shop?

We've used a DTS dyno at John Beck's shop in Chico for 6 years. He has a number of adaptors, although one that fit the V6 would be long shot. The important consideration is that you don't need a flywheel, just the adapter. The dyno has its own starter.

Vintage Hot Rod - Home of the World's Fastest Roadster

What are you going to use for an ECU?

If I can be of any help, let me know. I'm a dyno addict.