[argtv6]

I've got a client who imported a late 1979 USA version to Malta from Italy a couple of years ago.
The previous owner, who was not the first owner, told him that this USA version was sold new in Italy because sales had fallen or were stopped in the USA at that point in time.
This Spica car was converted to Dellortos in the past and a lot of evidence showing that it was a Spica car remains. Even the speedometer is in MPH.
Centro Documentazione have given the present owner a certificate stating that this USA car was sold new in Rome.
Can anyone here elaborate on this, as I found it very strange?
Were there more cases like this?
Could it have been sold new to some American diplomat or serviceman in Italy?
Thanks
Ralph

 

[ossodiseppia]

There were a fair number of US spec Alfas that never made it over due to low sales. So, there is no reason to disbelieve what you have been told.

 

[yvesmontreal]

There is also evidence that a batch of late US spec 2000 GTVs were sold in Europe in 1974-1975 as well.

 

[brewtech]

cant recreate history, and you will simply have to take the story at face value because otherwise it’s always going to be a story. But Im okay with the story.

 

[Max Pershyn]

I've got a client who imported a late 1979 USA version to Malta from Italy a couple of years ago.
The previous owner, who was not the first owner, told him that this USA version was sold new in Italy because sales had fallen or were stopped in the USA at that point in time.
This Spica car was converted to Dellortos in the past and a lot of evidence showing that it was a Spica car remains. Even the speedometer is in MPH.
Centro Documentazione have given the present owner a certificate stating that this USA car was sold new in Rome.
Can anyone here elaborate on this, as I found it very strange?
Were there more cases like this?
Could it have been sold new to some American diplomat or serviceman in Italy?
Thanks
Ralph

It might be purchased by the USA military or USA international tourist / embassy employee and left in Europe.

Only Alfetta 2000 Li America was the USA model sold in Europe.

 

[ossodiseppia]

How do you explain this?

 

[Max Pershyn]

The same explanation. It was for the new cars purchased from the factory for export. I assume If such car was sold in Italy by law it had the owners manual in Italian.

Istruzioni per l’uso AUTOVEICOLI MUNITI DI TARGA "EE"

Istruzioni per l’uso AUTOVEICOLI MUNITI DI TARGA

www.asaps.it

There is no official evidence that North American cars were sold in dealerships. Only three AR models in Europe had mechanical Spica - Montreal, Alfetta 2000 Li America and 1982 Alfetta QO. However only 2000 Li America (1500 cars for Italian market) had complete North American equipment

 

[yvesmontreal]

Here is an extract of Pat Hung's registry accessible in this thread. Four cars delivered in Europe amongst a couple dozen entries for the last batch of 2000 GTVs. There is only a single one in the rest of the US 2000 GTV entries. I would call that a trend. I do remember reading something on a French forum about US spec GTVs dumped on the European market. Strangely, that model was manufactured until Spring 1975, while it didn't comply with the 1975 Federal bumper regulations. Some of these cars made in 1975 were sold as 1974 models!

 

[ossodiseppia]

Max, just because there is no official evidence, does not mean it did not happen.

 

[divotandtralee]

Ralph, with all due respect .. I don't think your audience, including me, understands the gist of your point of question. It was a SPICA car.. whether it ever set foot in North America?// Like why does it matter whether it did or not and that there might or might not be others like it. There are plenty of Alfas converted from SPICA in EU and it's probably a safe bet not all of them were imported from the USA. It also is quite logical that AR built all the SPICA car with MPH gauges and didn't have custom build sheets for Euro destination cars. It would have been a marketing decision ..nothing to do with production . .It would be a snafu in production since these cars were mass produced for inventory. Things like amber tail lights and other lighting could have een swapped out at the dealer level. not the production line.for such a small runof exceptions.

 

[argtv6]

Thanks to all for your very informative replies.
Being on the same longitude as Italy several USA version spiders, mostly series 3s and 4s bought new in the USA, are circumnavigating the globe by first being exported second hand to Japan and subsequently imported to Malta. As we drive on the left like Japan there is a lot of second hand trade in modern cars and the importers are frequently adding classic cars they find for sale there to their shipments to Malta.
Other USA Alfas exported to Europe second hand have found their way here and these too have a straightforward history.
This S2 is however an exception.

 

[Max Pershyn]

Thanks to all for your very informative replies.
Being on the same longitude as Italy several USA version spiders, mostly series 3s and 4s bought new in the USA, are circumnavigating the globe by first being exported second hand to Japan and subsequently imported to Malta. As we drive on the left like Japan there is a lot of second hand trade in modern cars and the importers are frequently adding classic cars they find for sale there to their shipments to Malta.
Other USA Alfas exported to Europe second hand have found their way here and these too have a straightforward history.
This S2 is however an exception.

Some Japanese Alfa Romeo were in Canadian specs, they were not imported second hand from USA.
For instance Spider S4 was officially sold in Japan in Canadian specs (similar to USA but speedometer in km/h). Local distributor added exhaust temperature light and Sony stereo.
Japanese cars were LHD.
Approximately 70% of S4 cars sold in Asia had Automatic transmission.

Taiwan got the same cars. Hong Kong had the same but converted to RHD by distributor.

The same story with S3 cars for Japanese market, all of them were in Canadian specs.




Sent from my motorola one vision using Tapatalk

 

[Max Pershyn]

Max, just because there is no official evidence, does not mean it did not happen.

I would like to see facts doesn't matter official or not that AR in 70s distributed cars in North American specs in Europe, without changing speedometer to km/h, with USA head lights, with Kat, etc...

Sent from my motorola one vision using Tapatalk

 

[Max Pershyn]

Here is an extract of Pat Hung's registry accessible in this thread. Four cars delivered in Europe amongst a couple dozen entries for the last batch of 2000 GTVs. There is only a single one in the rest of the US 2000 GTV entries. I would call that a trend. I do remember reading something on a French forum about US spec GTVs dumped on the European market. Strangely, that model was manufactured until Spring 1975, while it didn't comply with the 1975 Federal bumper regulations. Some of these cars made in 1975 were sold as 1974 models!


View attachment 1675427
View attachment 1675428

I downloaded all files and tried to analyze.
105/115 Spider all versions (USA) - all sold in USA
GTV (1750/2000) (USA) - 11 out of 249 sold in Europe then 10 imported to the States.

11 cars were sold in Europe,.
9 of them were sold in Germany, 8 were imported to the USA.
2 cars were sold in Benelux and imported to the USA.

Isn't it a sign that cars were sold to the US militaries widely presented in Europe during the Cold War?

 

[yvesmontreal]

The population of cars registered in the Alfabb registry is likely to have a bias towards US and English speaking owners. We do not have so many posters from France, Italy, Spain or Portugal. There are some entries from Europe in the registry, but if you were to compile the overall data you would conclude that the majority of surviving 105 GTs are in North America, which is far from true. The registry has never been promoted through other media than this forum as far as I know.

What I wanted to show is that amongst the 11 cars you counted, an abnormally high proportion was in the last months of GTV production. Maybe it shows something, maybe it doesn't.

It remains that I participated in a discussion about Spica GTVs sold new in France on a French forum some time ago. It happened. Was it marginal? Most likely.

 

[yvesmontreal]

Please look at the last entry on the registry thread. It confirms what I thought.

 

[Max Pershyn]

Please look at the last entry on the registry thread. It confirms what I thought.

Yves, thank you for sharing this. So I googled and found following

https://webcache.googleusercontent....eure-meinung-2.html+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

[/URL]

[QUOTE}Several hundred US GTV 2000 1975/1976 were imported to Germany. The cars came directly from the USA, where they stood in the port for a certain time and were no longer allowed to be registered (exhaust gas etc.).
In Frankfurt at Lärchenstrasse 110, the TÜV was converted to meet the requirements, i.e. the headlights were replaced, the Sidelamps painted black and what else do I know. The speedometer and Spica remained unchanged.[/QUOTE}

https://webcache.googleusercontent....ahnenforschung.html+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

[/URL]

[QUOTE}The US 2000 GTV were also sold here in Germany. As far as I can remember, a few hundred GTVs came back to Europe from the States. The vehicles were probably parked in the port of Newark for a long time and could no longer be registered in the USA, as any emissions laws were no longer met. In Frankfurt on Lärchenstrasse, the US boxes were then converted for the European market. However, the Spica injection systems remained installed. Some were then converted to carburettors by dealers.[/QUOTE}