[samakijoe]

Surely someone in this group has a 1974 owners manual
he/she could send a copy of the pages in question.
That said, does anyone know Jay Leno, if so, ask him how he gets around this problem. I'll bet he says that he never had this problem.
I'm thinking there seems to be a number of different "classes" car owners in Ca.
Maybe Jay could do something for his fellow classic car owners to get those clowns in Sacramento off their duff and do something constructive for the voters for a change .
Ca. is the only state we hear of this problem.

N.B. I say this only because I will never live in Ca. (or visit) ..........

 

[Edgewood121]

Thanks again for the inputs. I am compiling as much information as I can, in parallel with trying to find the manufacturer's certificate.
I do have the original owners manual, but unfortunately it is not in very good shape, the pages are stuck together :-(.
Does someone have a 1973 Spider 2000 Inezione Owners manual that they could take pictures of the pages with the USA DOT Consumer information in it? It would be greatly appreciated!
View attachment 1717484

Out of curiosity, what is the specific need for pages of the US DOT info? US DOT is not emissions but rather related to the FMVSS, which is the plate you should have on the driver's door jamb. A picture of this plate is much more substantial than a picture of a couple of pages in an owner's manual. Further, the FMVSS plate should have been certified on your Reg 31 form.

If it's just a couple of pictures you need, I don't think it would make a difference if the owner's manual was from 1974, 1975, 1976 or whatever (since year is probably not mentioned at the bottom of the page or in context but just guessing here)...but this assuming the info is in the USA owner's manual. I just checked my 1977 owner's manual and there is no info for US DOT.

If you are dealing with the CA DMV and that's all they are asking for, then just give it to them. It's not worth the aggravation pointing out their ignorance. Seems like you have at least made some good progress on this.

 

[73AlfaOEMOwner]

OK, I think I can help. I am the original and still owner of a 1973 Alfa Spider (VIN #AR3041989) that was originally imported into Canada by the Alfa dealer Sports Cars Unlimited (SCU) in Toronto. I bought it new from SCU's dealership in Livonia, MI on 31 January 1974. Since the Livonia dealership didn't have a silver one, they transported mine over to Michigan (and into the USA) from Toronto and sold it to me. For the '73 model year there was no difference between US and Canadian specs. I registered the car without a problem in California from 1974 until around 1980 (I was a naval officer stationed in San Diego). Soon after I bought. the car I sent in the warrantee registration coupon and then a few months later I got a letter from Alfa USA wanting to know how the car made it into the US . The car has been repainted a couple of times since I bought it (in 1983 and 2014) so I don't know if any of the stickers that are mentioned above are still on the car. Tomorrow I'll take the car cover off (it is in its winter slumber now) and see what's there. I'll also look into my purchase records and see what I have. Stay tuned.

Bob J.

 

[73AlfaOEMOwner]

Here's what I have. I have taken photos of my original, and very beat up, Owners Manual, and photos of an Owners Manual from a 1973 Berlina that I bought a number of years ago since mine was in such rough shape. The 1973 Spider, GTV and Berlina Owners Manuals are absolutely identical, except for the car model name on the cover. Every other page is the same. Note on the inside front cover that my original Owners Manual has a big blue sticker saying "Not Applicable in Canada" covering the verbiage on US emissions law. I included a photo of the same page from the Berlina Owners Manual so you can see what it says. I also took a photo of the page from the Owners Manual that shows where the VIN label and other stickers for paint codes, DOT certification and emissions data are. Attached also are I photos of both my VIN label (on the driver's door jamb) and the emissions data label (#7 on the diagram) in the engine compartment. Note that I converted my car from Spica to Webers back in 1979, although in the end there was nothing wrong with the Spica system. c'est la vie... My engine compartment has never been repainted and the ugly orange discolorations you might be able to see around the emissions data label are remnants of a battery exploding due to a faulty voltage regulator in 1981 on a Saturday night on I-80, 15 miles east of Grand Island, NE. Now, that was a fun experience....

I hope this all helps. If the CA DMV has access to old records, my car was registered there for many years (actually probably up until 1990 or so) with the blue tag "586 KQO".

Good luck and if there is anything else I can help with, don't hesitate to contact me.

Bob J.

 

[bjwhite]

This is a silly and horrible post.

Why don't you Californians do one of your initiatives and get this stupidity changed? Why they would care about a weekend driven collector car and whether it met emissions in 1972 is beyond me.

That law needs to be changed to rolling years. If the car is 30 years old, no more emissions bs.

 

[ossodiseppia]

This is a silly and horrible post.

Why don't you Californians do one of your initiatives and get this stupidity changed? Why they would care about a weekend driven collector car and whether it met emissions in 1972 is beyond me.

That law needs to be changed to rolling years. If the car is 30 years old, no more emissions bs.

Geez, Brian. Your post is not helpful. All this poor fellow is looking for is some help to get his car legalized in the state he lives.

@euro1750 there are two things that are being looked for. A plastic placard on the driver's side door jamb will show that the car meets DOT safety standards. It is probably of less importance to them than the exhaust emissions.

In 1973, there were only what were called 50 state cars. That meant the cars met emissions standards for California and the rest of the US. The engine compartment would have displayed the sticker shown below. The sticker is placed upside down for ease of reading.

I messaged you asking that you reach out to me via email, if you would like some help.

 

[Alfafannj]

This is a silly and horrible post.

... Why they would care about a weekend driven collector car and whether it met emissions in 1972 is beyond me.

That law needs to be changed to rolling years. If the car is 30 years old, no more emissions bs.

Smog. Legend has it that it's not good for you.

 

[Del]

Very old, and perhaps more polluting, cars are pretty darn rare compared to the vast majority of vehicles on the road. California is paranoid about this for no good scientific (yeah, I know science is not popular these days) reason. And compared to the old days of smoggy LA, it is so much better now just because of the multitude of newer cars on the road, not because of any overstrict pollution checks, per se, in California. And, with the increasing number of EVs, albeit small yet, it will only get better. Ridding the State of large diesel/gas powered semi trucks which contribute maybe 25% of the pollutants even thought they represent a only about 5% of the number of vehicles would be much more effective so I've read in the science journals. Manufacturers are beginning to build these new electric semi rigs, Tesla for one. Maybe even hydrogen powered as well.

Brian is correct. Washington State, which does follow the California regulations, saw the light, had given older cars a 25 year old limit, but eventually eliminated any smog checks, the failure rate of all the cars, as a whole, being very very low.

However, having said that, I don't understand why some bureaucrat in the California DMV is giving a hard time. Some clerk behind a desk with nothing better to do I guess. Try another office somewhere else?

 

[Edgewood121]

Very old, and perhaps more polluting, cars are pretty darn rare compared to the vast majority of vehicles on the road. California is paranoid about this for no good scientific (yeah, I know science is not popular these days) reason. And compared to the old days of smoggy LA, it is so much better now just because of the multitude of newer cars on the road, not because of any overstrict pollution checks, per se, in California. And, with the increasing number of EVs, albeit small yet, it will only get better. Ridding the State of large diesel/gas powered semi trucks which contribute maybe 25% of the pollutants even thought they represent a only about 5% of the number of vehicles would be much more effective so I've read in the science journals. Manufacturers are beginning to build these new electric semi rigs, Tesla for one. Maybe even hydrogen powered as well.

Brian is correct. Washington State, which does follow the California regulations, saw the light, had given older cars a 25 year old limit, but eventually eliminated any smog checks, the failure rate of all the cars, as a whole, being very very low.

However, having said that, I don't understand why some bureaucrat in the California DMV is giving a hard time. Some clerk behind a desk with nothing better to do I guess. Try another office somewhere else?

Just to play devil's advocate, it may not be accurate to compare Washington State to California (really Coastal California because that what it comes down to). Coastal California has much more density from top to bottom along with a much larger population, much larger than the majority of countries. So if California say repeals all legislation for 25 years and older, then there will be a gold rush to parts supplier for wild cams, headers, chips, etc.

Pre-1976 vehicles are a very small handful overall (most are probably high-dollar collectibles that sit around) but pre -1997 is quite a bit. Also would open the door to import more pre-1997 vehicles to California as well. Also to import more vehicles every year since 25-years is rolling.

Granted, that number may still not be large enough to make a dent in air quality, but this is also about public nuisance and general quality of life issues. With high-traffic areas like Los Angeles, does anyone really want to be behind an exhaust of a teen driving a 1993 Buick that has a hogged-out converter and home-brewed secondary injectors?

It's a tough argument either way but in realty, California has so many other problems which affect a larger percentage of the public, so that loosening smog is not the best use of time for legislators. Does California focus on the homeless problem or does California give Johnny Big Boost free-reign to pimp out his Mitsubishi? Only so many hours in a day to legislate. Common sense and science take a back seat to public demands.

The sentimentalists remember the golden-era days of the free-balling, wild-west culture of California, but the population of California has grown and evolved since then into something that has a much different direction on things.

 

[Del]

In real life, I don't think they need to worry about the neighborhood kid or the old time muscle car enthusiasts and their polluting cars. There are just not that many in comparison to the more modern pretty clean cars.

"Common sense and science take a back seat to public demands" True that, and it shows in all the inane activities we see, period. It's a struggle sometimes. Can easily want to beat one's head against the wall. Being naive, I never thought in my lifetime...

Meanwhile, hope that this licensing situation gets straightened away.

 

[euro1750]

Here's what I have. I have taken photos of my original, and very beat up, Owners Manual, and photos of an Owners Manual from a 1973 Berlina that I bought a number of years ago since mine was in such rough shape. The 1973 Spider, GTV and Berlina Owners Manuals are absolutely identical, except for the car model name on the cover. Every other page is the same. Note on the inside front cover that my original Owners Manual has a big blue sticker saying "Not Applicable in Canada" covering the verbiage on US emissions law. I included a photo of the same page from the Berlina Owners Manual so you can see what it says. I also took a photo of the page from the Owners Manual that shows where the VIN label and other stickers for paint codes, DOT certification and emissions data are. Attached also are I photos of both my VIN label (on the driver's door jamb) and the emissions data label (#7 on the diagram) in the engine compartment. Note that I converted my car from Spica to Webers back in 1979, although in the end there was nothing wrong with the Spica system. c'est la vie... My engine compartment has never been repainted and the ugly orange discolorations you might be able to see around the emissions data label are remnants of a battery exploding due to a faulty voltage regulator in 1981 on a Saturday night on I-80, 15 miles east of Grand Island, NE. Now, that was a fun experience....

I hope this all helps. If the CA DMV has access to old records, my car was registered there for many years (actually probably up until 1990 or so) with the blue tag "586 KQO".

Good luck and if there is anything else I can help with, don't hesitate to contact me.

Bob J.

Fantastic! Thanks very much! As mentioned, I am trying to gather as much information as possible so this is a big help, all in the absence of a letter from Alfa Romeo. My car is pretty close, it is 3041152, so just a bit earlier, but I think identical in configuration, so your emissions sticker is without a doubt that same that was on my car. I do have the packard in the door jamb. Thanks again for sharing this info from your car.
Cheers

 

[euro1750]

Geez, Brian. Your post is not helpful. All this poor fellow is looking for is some help to get his car legalized in the state he lives.

@euro1750 there are two things that are being looked for. A plastic placard on the driver's side door jamb will show that the car meets DOT safety standards. It is probably of less importance to them than the exhaust emissions.

View attachment 1717911

In 1973, there were only what were called 50 state cars. That meant the cars met emissions standards for California and the rest of the US. The engine compartment would have displayed the sticker shown below. The sticker is placed upside down for ease of reading.

View attachment 1717912

View attachment 1717913

I messaged you asking that you reach out to me via email, if you would like some help.

THanks very much for this info, it is really appreciated! I'll definitely reach out if their is something else that I can think of.
Cheers
Andrew