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Did someone say lowering the car caused the improved handling?
Provided that lowering does not mess up the suspension geometry by moving the roll center in the wrong direction.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Provided that lowering does not mess up the suspension geometry by moving the roll center in the wrong direction.
I'll make sure I pass that on to the engineers at Alfaholics.
 

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I bet that Alfaholics use dropped spindle uprights, knuckle risers or similar on their track cars.
 

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See first post.

My point really was owners often go on about how a suspension kit massively improved their cars handling, but they are comparing it to when it had old stuffed springs and shocks.

I bet if you replaced the old stuffed springs and shocks with standard new replacements the car would handle a lot better too.

So as DPetersen said, we really need to back to back tests before we proclaim: lowering or somebodies performance kit, or even poly bushes improves the handling.

Now if we were discussing new Alfas, fair enough, but we are talking about 50 year old cars that are overdue for maintenance.
Pete
 

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Here's pics of my recently re-sprung 11502. Note the rear, very heavy bumper has been removed. I reckon that's 30 lbs or more removed.

First pic is front wheel.

1614447


1614448


1614446
 

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My tip, speedway motors 1150 inch pound front springs,180 at the rear, qa1 proma star shocks at the rear, these are cool overs so you can adjust them to what you want ( single adjustable are $179.00 part number ds601, duel adjustable part number is dd601, these cost$259) each, fronts are qa1 proma star ( single are $179 each part number is ds501, duel is $259 part no. Dd501) springs from speedway motors are 39- 59 each.hope this helps, also you can rebuild or re valve qa1 dampeners at home, for very little money,and American built, try that with konis, konis cost a little more than qa1 parts.
 

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I'll make sure I pass that on to the engineers at Alfaholics.
From the description of their titanium suspension package
Alfaholics Geometry Kit. Correcting roll centre height, roll-camber characteristics, improved castor angle and bumpsteer free steering.
Max Banks of Alfaholics was a contributor to one of the first serious threads on handling and suspension in the early days of the ABB. He understands that lowering by spring length has the potential to negatively impact geometry and make handling worse. The kit appears to have drop spindle uprights which lower the car without lowering the roll center and messing up the camber gain when cornering.
 

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I have the old IAP sport springs on mine and it kinda has the euro stance on it. There is like zero gap between the rear wheel and fender lip and have a couple inches between the front wheel and finder lip.

The Brits really like having their tail ends lower and I have to say that it does look good and does makes sense to me.

image.jpeg
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Ed,
I like the way you mingle quotes with your opinion. My package was designed, released, and suggested by them. But I guess I will put that aside and listen to you....
 

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Do we?, ah right, news to me, I'll make sure i tell myself.....:D
I would have thought it to be the other way around.
 

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Provided that lowering does not mess up the suspension geometry by moving the roll center in the wrong direction.
So are you suggesting that the original (lower) European ride height is compromised and that the messed about higher ride height for USA cars would be correct? Or is there any evidence that different parts were used for the suspension on US cars.

On the subject of removing the rear anti roll bar and having the Konis set 50% front, 0% rear, it is seen as the cheapest handling upgrade you can get here in Europe. I know several owners carrying out this mod and all of us experience the benefit. As for understeer????? No way, less input at the wheel, a little power on and the car flows around a bend.
 

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I fear a few fences are being unnecessarily taken here, based upon what seems to me to be misread or (unintentional) selective quoting.
My take, based upon what wiser heads than mine have said before (take it or leave it):
  • I’ve not seen any evidence that US ride heights improved anything, other than maybe keeping sumps safer. Euro heights were ‘as designed’. Higher US was to satisfy US regs, when and where different.
  • you can lower a car too far and upset roll centres, steering and handling. Alfaholics does know when too much is not a good thing, and sells drop spindles and geometry kits to restore things with some kits. (Skibum - Ed and you are both saying this.)
  • UK likes soft springs? Tell that to TR owners. My unreliable take is that marketed Euro handling solutions might TEND to softer springs than some, but are backed up by bigger roll bars. Different approach....but hard to generalise.
No offence meant to any party.
Play on...
 
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