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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
thanks for the follow up!

just curious
did you get at it from the outside (removing that big hex nut) or by removing the tensioner from inside the head?
I removed the tensioner from inside the head. The engine is on a stand, so access wasn’t terribly bad. Being able to look straight into the bolt hole to line up the hole in the wedge made a HUGE difference.
 

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I've seen that "jam" location often enough to be #1 on my list.
 
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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Movin’ right along, but now I’ve reached my Rubicon: cigarette seals. Replace them, or let sleeping dogs lie? Definitely gonna do the rear main seal, regardless. And if I do decide to go for the gold, should I use the cigarettes (I have ‘em), or should I do the Ultra Grey/Copper/Loctite 512 way? I’m a wreck!

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Youre this far. Pull the bearing cap, clean everything real good, install new cig seals with Ultra grey at the bottom of the holes, and smear ultragray over the outside of the seals. Place the seals in the slots on the bearing cap and re-install. Seal end should be proud of the sealing flange by 3/16 inch or so.
PS the nut is upside down on the bearing cap!
 

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I'm of the other cut of cloth.. and I respect GOATS ...if you have no reason to change it .. don't change it. I have seen more sleeping dogs bite only because the owner insisted on it to bite... And no the nuts are right,, seems illogical but they are from every engine I have taken apart. One would expect the proud face be down. ..but they aren't.. hell if I know why.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Youre this far. Pull the bearing cap, clean everything real good, install new cig seals with Ultra grey at the bottom of the holes, and smear ultragray over the outside of the seals. Place the seals in the slots on the bearing cap and re-install. Seal end should be proud of the sealing flange by 3/16 inch or so.
PS the nut is upside down on the bearing cap!
So I used a drywall screw to pull the cigarette seals. They came out really easily… almost too easily. The tunnel is clean as a whistle. And I just dry-fitted the new seals — they went in easily… again, too easily. So, lathering ‘em up with UG and taking the plunge!

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Daaaaaamn, I can’t believe you spotted the upside-down nuts — I wasn’t paying any attention to them, figuring I wasn’t messing with them. And this just after reminding myself for the past two hours about getting the cam cap nuts right! 😂. And now, on closer examination, it appears that most (if not all) of the other cap nuts are wrong, too! 🤦‍♂️. So, they should all be washer-side down, yes? I guess I should fix them since I’m in there already. Any idea what the torque spec is for them? Sigh.

(dry fit, not pushed all the way in)
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There is a rash of too small cig seals out there- there is a TSB I think on this — ask Jim Grant he has the scoop. In any case, add UG at the bottom of the channel — a couple mm in height. Coat the seals and set em home. When done right, you will see UG seeping out of those tiny crevices where the bearing cap /block are. Your “too easy” is a good indication that you have a leak there. Make sure you clean the snot out of that channel before installing your new cig seals
 
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So I used a drywall screw to pull the cigarette seals. They came out really easily… almost too easily. The tunnel is clean as a whistle. And I just dry-fitted the new seals — they went in easily… again, too easily. So, lathering ‘em up with UG and taking the plunge!

P.S.
Daaaaaamn, I can’t believe you spotted the upside-down nuts — I wasn’t paying any attention to them, figuring I wasn’t messing with them. And this just after reminding myself for the past two hours about getting the cam cap nuts right! 😂. And now, on closer examination, it appears that most (if not all) of the other cap nuts are wrong, too! 🤦‍♂️. So, they should all be washer-side down, yes? I guess I should fix them since I’m in there already. Any idea what the torque spec is for them? Sigh.

(dry fit, not pushed all the way in)
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Nuts are correct. Although in reality. It really doesn't matter.

Pictures form an 88 spider. Around 65,000 miles. Bottom end had never been into. Also by the mid late 80's they were no longer putting the captive nuts on the main caps. Rear still has look tabs.
 

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My thoughts on the nuts. Yes, one side has a "finished" side with a defined flat with edge. Perhaps an engineer designed it as such because he believed that it would work better. Maybe he was correct. IMO, it makes little or no difference. I have seen, never opened engines, with the nuts up and down. Depended on who assembled the engine at the factory. As for @radojko and the rear cap, I would remove it and check the bearing. If good, clean the cap and all mating surfaces. Also clean and inspect and improve the end of the crank where the rear main runs. Coat all mating surfaces with UG. Coat cig seals too and press in while you are sliding cap down into place. Before cap is fully seated, coat OD of rear main with UG, and ID with white grease. Press seal over crank, and into place. Tighten main cap watching UG ooze out. Then press cig seals are far in as possible with your thumbs. Cig seals should stand proud about 2-3 1/16th" Good.
 

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Nuts are correct. Although in reality. It really doesn't matter.

Pictures form an 88 spider. Around 65,000 miles. Bottom end had never been into. Also by the mid late 80's they were no longer putting the captive nuts on the main caps. Rear still has look tabs.
My take is the side of the nut proud was initially part of the idea it would be best suited to receive the palmeter lock nuts.. then they went to lock tabs. They ARE NOT upside down. Over
 

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My take is the side of the nut proud was initially part of the idea it would be best suited to receive the palmeter lock nuts.. then they went to lock tabs. They ARE NOT upside down. Over
otoh, with the cam cap nuts that raised (or 'proud') surface is definitely down toward the flat washer....it somehow allows for a smoother torque effort....
in this photo, they got the left one wrong
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More on cig seals. Some are harder than others and slip into place without "the-tool". Others are softer and larger diameter. Over time, they were also made with a small hole through the center to avoid trapped air in the pocket beneath, I like these best as installed with Permetex Ultra Grey or Black, they still can be pushed in without hydraulic rejection from air pressure. Generally, the soft ones go in the freezer over night to stiffen them up for easier install. I use the UG or B on all. Installed correctly, disassembly will show UG or B on the mating edges of the rear cap. Installed this way, none EVER leak oil. From my own experience over many years.
 

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I guess Jim G and I just don't get it.... it's okay. The sun came up today.
Its one of those things were even with proof your going to have a hard time convincing people. You can’t go by the heads as just about everyone has had the cams taken out.

Besides if it was that important it would be in the shop manuals.
 

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there are two reasons for the flat side to go down , and neither reason is critical, much less moderately important for us shade tree monkeys. 1, the flat provides a more uniform mating surface to torque down against the flat mating surface, and 2, when the flat side is down, the number grade marking is UP, so you can quadrupole check that the correct grade of nut was used.

But given Jim, PA Andy, and uncle RIck sage advice --- I aint gonna worry about it no more!!!
 
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