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Discussion Starter #1
I'm having a terrible time finding the correct upholstery for those deep buckets on a 67 sprint GT. All the usual players make covers, and they refer to them as gray. These are not correct! The original gray was GRAY! Not almost black. Saw a nice sprint on BAT recently which had reupholstered seats which were correct. Anyone know from whom,,,where one can get this result. Have a call into Elvezio E but suspect they are the ones who are producing the almost black sets for everyone else. Here is an image of the correct color and detail
0-69.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Re-Originals has the correct color material and or seat skins, whichever you prefer.
actually they do not. They have what classic alfa has,, nearly black. still waiting to hear from E. Esposito but suspect they have the same stuff.
 

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My Interior was the grayish brown, identical match for my 66 Giulia Sprint GT Veloce. I always thought the straight grey was aftermarket. I thought only my color and black was offered.
 

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Should I presume you have asked the venders for fabric samples and are not just relying on internet colour photos.

Ken
 

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This is where you need the original seats as samples (I also have a set as pictured, which are nero fumo or my term: a mid grey ), and I suspect they are the original seats in the photo.

Unfortunately years of miss information has confused a number of owners. This is due to first poorly translated English parts manual by the factory (the Italian Parts manual although not perfect should be used as it's the primary document), poor interpretation over the last 20-30 years of Italian words the factory used 50 years ago and the errors in the English parts manual, thus adding to the confusion where even representatives of Alfa Romeo have been confused along with concourse judges around the world whom are probably still confused as well as with most suppliers, it's no wonder owners are seeking out original cars to get a match to the correct colour.

Here are some extracts from Wiki I've placed:

There were only 6 colors for the interior seats of the GT Veloce 1600. The Veloce's could be ordered in the Bertone De Luxe body option which included extra options. One of the extra options was a leather interior. The only leather colours available for the Veloce were dark brown leather (pelle testa di moro) or red leather (pelle rossa). The seat panels had perforations in the leather.
There were only two colors for all vinyl they were mid grey (nero fumo) or light tan(cuoio) and two colors for a cloth/vinyl combination grey/mid grey (panno grigio unito-finta pelle nero fumo) and light tan/tan(panno cammello-finta pelle cuoio).

There were only 4 colours for the door cards two for leather: dark brown leather (pelle testa di moro) or red leather (pelle rossa) and two for vinyl they were mid grey(nero fumo) or light tan(cuoio).
There were only two colors for the carpet mid grey (colore nero fumo) or red (colore rosso).
Source Alfa Romeo parts manual in Italian.

No documentary evidence exists (in the Italian language) that black leather or black vinyl or black cloth was used on the seats or door cards was ever used by the Alfa Romeo factory in the GT Veloce 1600. No documentary evidence exists (in the Italian language) that black carpet was ever used by the Alfa Romeo factory in the GT Veloce 1600. No evidence exist to date via Italian parts manual or a Certificate of origin for a GT Veloce 1600 (in the Italian language) that states GT Veloce 1600 had a black (nero) interior or an aramanto or rosso interior in vinyl. Source Alfa Romeo parts manual in Italian.

For vinyl seats finding the mid grey basket weave to re trim seats is the main issue. The machines that print patterns on vinyl are not colour specific. For the suppliers it's just a matter of finding out who is doing the printing and place an order for the correct color mid grey. Well realistically that won't happen any time soon given the current world health situation.

Of course another option can be installing a Bertone De Luxe leather interior option for the car in dark brown leather (pelle testa di moro) or red leather (pelle rossa). It took me about 150-200 hours to put the perforation pattern in the leather with hand tools. There is only one other GT Veloce 1600 I know of recently (last few years) that had a Bertone De Luxe leather interior option installed and they had access to a specialist restoration shop to put the perforation pattern in the leather.

Sorry but, greyish brown interiors are most likely brown interiors color dyed poorly or not maintained because after market trimmer could not find the correct grey basket weave.Or they were black dyed brown seats that turned greyish brown.
Black interiors were never installed by the factory or any dealer. Black interiors were aftermarket products made up by local trimmers using material supplies from 1750 GTVs which had black basket weave readily available.

Regards Steve
 

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I'm sure there were 2 greys used in 1600GVTs in period, even if the parts book doesn't differentiate them.
The first being the darker used on early 1600GTV (non-basket weave), GTA & 101 series. (perhaps others?)
The later type basket-weave series of seats I'm sure are slightly lighter grey as people are finding out when comparing current reproduction basket weave offerings.
Pictured here is an ORIGINAL UNTOUCHED early NON-basket weave 1600GTV seat, with a piece of current Classic Alfa sample, and the original side panel from my 1600GTA. Within reason, considering different ages etc, these are the same shade, all the darker shade of grey. Note: it does look darker in real life than this photo.
Now somewhere around my in sheds etc I have another original rear side panel from a basket weave 1600GTV & I know is lighter & does not match the GTA ones as I was intending to use that part until I put them side by side years ago & discovered the difference.
I've also found this same darker grey shade in remnants in our Giulietta Ti.
I'm suspecting that when the basket weave was introduced, perhaps the Alfa Romeo factory material supplier changed
& with it the difference in shade of grey?
I'm also thinking that the current situation is that the current suppliers only bother to make the 1 color that cover the most number of different models simply for commercial reasons.
I know this doesn't solve the current problem, but might help explain some anomalies.
Regards, Vince.
1621254
 

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I think that those are GT seats, not GTV. My GTV, early type made in 1966 had that same medium gray basket weave.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Very informative indeed. Yes I think the sticking point is ,,,will be the basket weave. Re Originals, Classic Alfa, and Elvezio Esposito sell 3 shades of skins. I have samples of the gray from the first 2 and am awaiting samples from Esposito. Classic and RE are to my eye almost indistinguishable from black. I fear this will be true of Esposito as well.
I have an early 65 giulia sprint gt and the 67 gtv. The earlier gt seats are gray seemingly to match the dash and these seats very much resemble GTA seats. The 67 seats are original and in remarkable condition. The search will go on and I will keep you posted. Thanks .

Also
Vince
 

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You guys know, I trust, that as a group men are more colour blind than women. When in doubt I have always sought guidance giving a successful result. Seek out a lady with an eye for art, decorating and the like.

Ken
 

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I'm sure there were 2 greys used in 1600GVTs in period, even if the parts book doesn't differentiate them.
The first being the darker used on early 1600GTV (non-basket weave), GTA & 101 series. (perhaps others?)
The later type basket-weave series of seats I'm sure are slightly lighter grey as people are finding out when comparing current reproduction basket weave offerings.
Pictured here is an ORIGINAL UNTOUCHED early NON-basket weave 1600GTV seat, with a piece of current Classic Alfa sample, and the original side panel from my 1600GTA. Within reason, considering different ages etc, these are the same shade, all the darker shade of grey. Note: it does look darker in real life than this photo.
Now somewhere around my in sheds etc I have another original rear side panel from a basket weave 1600GTV & I know is lighter & does not match the GTA ones as I was intending to use that part until I put them side by side years ago & discovered the difference.
I've also found this same darker grey shade in remnants in our Giulietta Ti.
I'm suspecting that when the basket weave was introduced, perhaps the Alfa Romeo factory material supplier changed
& with it the difference in shade of grey?
I'm also thinking that the current situation is that the current suppliers only bother to make the 1 color that cover the most number of different models simply for commercial reasons.
I know this doesn't solve the current problem, but might help explain some anomalies.
Regards, Vince. View attachment 1621254
I asked my lady if these were all the same shade of grey. They look black or dark grey to me. She said these are not grey but all the same colour with a component of brown.
A colour chart and a good eye, maybe a young eye, are required, I think.

Ken
 

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Hi all,
Certainly in the picture reproduction & depending how your particular screen might show it, they may appear a touch of brown, BUT I can say that in real-life none of the 3 samples shown in my post above have any hint of brown in them. See pic below, this also shows better the more real-life darkness, plus a bit of dust & dirt.
My point was that I think the quite dark grey may have been used on other (older) models & is a different (darker) shade to the original basket-weave seat grey. Picture below is the seat I used for that color comparison. It's an early GTV seat, from a Dunlop brake car. I have come across quite a few of these in my quest while actually searching for the even earlier GT seats. The lack of basket weave leads people mistake them for GT seats. Now I get people to send me a picture before I get too excited...
BTW, does anyone know if perhaps these early GTV seats might have been also used in the last of the GT model?
Reason I ask is that a couple of people seemed pretty positive that they have removed this type from GT with grey dash. I'm not too sure about that, but then I've not seen too many original late '66 GTs over the years to know.
Vince.
1621447
 

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No basket weave centers = not original early GTV material. IMHO! Unless they were ordered in cloth, which was popular in hot areas of Italy.
 

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BTW, does anyone know if perhaps these early GTV seats might have been also used in the last of the GT model?
Reason I ask is that a couple of people seemed pretty positive that they have removed this type from GT with grey dash. I'm not too sure about that, but then I've not seen too many original late '66 GTs over the years to know.
Vince.
View attachment 1621447
Hi Vince
What type of seat rail / mounting bolts does the above seat have ?
GTs use a five bolt attachment
 

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Hi Shane & 101/105guy,
I don't have the rails from this seat (the seat is on loan to me from a shop), but the base is identical to S1 1750 & the 1750 rails bolt on directly. Without pulling a basket weave seat out on my rusty 1600GTV, it looks to have the same mountings & base as S1 1750 as well.
The dark grey vinyl is certainly correct Italian grain pattern, is worn shiney in the usual places & hardened/aged in sun areas, and opening up in the seams. The car it belongs to has been off the road & inside the back of a garage since 1978.
As to the plain pattern, there are lots more basket weave GTV seats around for sure, but I've seen a tan set in plain & have been sent quite a few pictures of others as people think they may be early GT seats (which are the older thicker, squarer, less-bucket type, with big taller bases).
 

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Color:
There is an error in translation in the English Alfa parts manual which has been proved by checking the Italian parts catalogue when it comes to color of the grey seats for the GT Veloce 1600. I'm not saying some of the colors people have mentioned did not exist. What I'm saying is they did not exist on a GT Veloce 1600. Of course special eye conditions are present in the community where an individual thinks grey is brown as one Alfabb member has confirmed he has first hand experience of.

Basket weave:
There is so far no documentary evidence presented of an error of omission in the English or Italian Afla parts manuals:: That GT Veloce 1600 had seats that were in all plain vinyl with no basket weave. No supplement note has been presented from the factory to tell us GT Veloce 1600 had seats that were in all plain vinyl with no basket weave.

The lifespan of the cloth insert GT Veloce 1600 seats probably was short, thus needing to be re-trimmed prior to selling the car. I think re-trimmed GT Veloce 1600 seat using all vinyl material with no basket weave possibly using stocks from the GT Sprint were used.

You can also tell a re-trimmed seat compared to an original seat, when the piping on the re-trimmed seat is of a larger diameter and does not have the correct fiber centre as what I think Vsharp's borrowed seats are. GT Veloce 1600 seats may have been re-trimmed in GT Sprint material early in their life and thus are showing age/wear marks giving a false impression the seat is an original trimmed seat, when in fact they are not original trimmed seats.

The GT Veloce 1600 cars were first made in 1966, my LHD GT Veloce is the 9th oldest car listed on classicalfaromeoregistry and it came with basket weave seats.

So until new documentary evidence comes to light, for the GT Veloce 1600 cars there were only two colors for all vinyl they were mid grey (nero fumo) or light tan(cuoio) and two colors for a cloth/vinyl combination grey/mid grey (panno grigio unito-finta pelle nero fumo) and light tan/tan(panno cammello-finta pelle cuoio).

I've been accessing Italian parts catalogue thanks to OKP until my printed copy comes in from US.
Italian parts manual

Regards Steve
 

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Not sure on whether there was basketweave on 1600 GTV or not ... have a vague recollection of seeing it in period but this may not be correct.

Vin is definitely correct on two shades of nero fumo ... one lighter and one darker ...

And on an aside, there is the issue of the perforations on the GTA nero fumo material ... the original was chevron rather the rhomboid as on the currently available materials ...
 

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Hi Alleggerita
The question is were to access the correct colour basket weave for the GT Veloce 1600. The primary sources of information Italian parts catalogue indicate one colour existed. There are documented evidence of barn find one owner cars to complement this. Other colours are in reference to non basket weave seats which are most likely be called non original re-trimmed seats, until new documentary evidence comes to light.
I don't have reproduction seat covers so not sure on how the reproduction basket weave pattern compares to my original seats' basket weave pattern.
Regards Steve
 
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