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Hello John

Hello John,

Welcome to the TZ chapter here on alfabb. Thank you for sharing your story with us!! I am sure it will clear up some of the blind spots of the cars concerned. I'll come back to that. A lot of information concerning the TZ can be found at Alfa Romeo Zagato Register & Information Site Have a look at the TZ-1 and TZ-2 register and share with us if you have questions. We here on this bulletin board are very interested in the pictures and information that you have. And Jack Habits of the earlier mentioned website will probably be interested too!

10511 750051: Alfa Romeo TZ # 051
10511 750089: Alfa Romeo TZ # 089

There is one book that can be considered as a bible for the TZ:
'Alfa Romeo Zagato SZ-TZ' by Marcello Minerbi. It contains a lot of researched information and has a chassisnumber register in it. Published in 1985 by La Mille Miglia Editrice. If you want one, please say so, They are not cheap!
Have a look at the threads in this chapter as the TZ will turn up regularly as a topic. By the way, my name is Olaf Roeten and I am a fellow JZ owner.

Ciao! Olaf
 

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Greetings John

Thank you for your post about TZ's 051 and 089. Any new information about TZs is of great interest to many Alfa BB members. It is fantastic that your father can remember his involvement with these cars. Any photos or stories he might share with us would be immensely appreciated.
In 1974 when I purchased TZ #082, I made contact with a gentleman named George Pezold who had printed a directory of TZ owners. Originally compiled in May of 1974, he then revised it in Nov. 1974 and April, 1976. The initial edition noted that ch# 051 was then owned by Elwood MacGowen of San Jose, CA. - previously owned and raced by Gene Smith - subsequently wrecked at a race in Candlestick Park. In the 1976 edition, Gene Smith is listed as the owner of a TZ with an unknown chassis number. Under Smith's name: "Contact: Merritt Carden of Newark, CA." Presumably this is chassis #089 - he further comments "Modified, 2 liter engine, originally red, now black." If you sold the original engine of this car to its present owner several years ago, then you may know more about 089's whereabouts than most.
As to who might want more information about these two cars, I have heard on several occasions that a 2nd edition of the Minerbi book is in the works. Perhaps Olaf has some knowledge about this - I'm sure the author would be delighted to have more history about these two cars.
Thanks again for your post. Regards, Dave Brumsted
 

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Eugene Smith is said to have bought the TZ from Ira Russell Andersson in 1965, chassis *750070*, a stradale, and removed the hood scoop, suspension pieces, engine and various other parts to race again.

*750089* is listed to have originally been delivered to Germany; and Minerbi listed it in his 1984 book "Alfa Romeo Zagato SZ/TZ" as being fitted with a 2000 cc engine and an ex owner Schinko, maybe from Switzerland.

To Minerbi: Arno Flach from Switzerland did a research in VINs of SZs and TZs in about 1974, when he owned his 3 SZ and TZ *750088*. He contacted other owners and sent his list to George C. Petzold, New York, who did himself a research. Later Vito Witting da Prato and Donald Hughes worked on those registers.
When Minerbi made his book of the SZs and TZs in 1984 he included a register without references, because he had done his own research, so he told to da Prato. Sadly his register contains all the typos in names, dates and places, that were on the original ones from Flach, Petzold and da Prato. Just like in the "Alfa TZ" book about 20 years later.

Nowadays there are a few people that work on those, "Zaagmans", "gtv2000", a few others, and me, of course. And yes, we have contact and would be interested to learn more about.
 

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Engine block *00007* might have not been original to *750089* but to *750007*, which was parted out after the Sebring fire. Btw. in 2006 a fellow from San Antonio, Texas, sold block *00009* via Ebay, that came from *750070* and had a professionally repaired hole from #3 rod when punched through on intake side behind the starter. The guy had other parts from *750051* and *750070* (spare tire holder and wheels), too.

*750051* is pictured in Car & Driver of August, 1964, at Bridgehampton

This is the only pic I have from a black TZ, but probably from the U.K.:
19760099 GB 001.jpg
 

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#70

Hi John,

I have owned #70 for quite a few years. I think you forgot you sold me the original repaired engine and 3 wheels. According to your dad, Gene removed the hood vent, and various other pieces from the car he rolled at Candlestick (#51?) and put them on #70. I have pictures from your dad of #70 at Laguna Seca in 1965 and pictures of your dad in the day with Gene's first TZ (#51?).

Martinue, your information is spot on.

John, if you have any further info on #70, of course I would be interested in seeing it.
Alan Frick
 

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Tz

Thanks John, always nice to talk to you or your dad. I feel very fortunate to be able to talk directly to the people that were there in the day.
Alan
 

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750051 & 750070

Hello John.

Thank you for sharing. It is always good to hear from primary sources!

I can offer a couple of details.

750051 was crashed at Candlestick August 1964 while Gene was attempting a pass into the lead of a race.

It would come as no surprise that Ira Russel Anderson purchased 750070 through Rezzaghi in San Francisco and then agreed to sell it again through Rezzaghi. Anderson might even have been pressured to sell? There is perhaps some supporting "evidence" in the fact that the crashed 750051 was reportedly leaning against a wall at Rezzaghi's place for a good long time, perhaps a few years.

Since there have been some credits acknowledged as to the actual sources of a good portion of the registry information contained in Minerbi's book, it seems appropriate to mention that the earliest collection of TZ registry-type information was compiled most likely by Massimo Colombo, an early fan of these cars.

Yeah, I also compile TZ build and history info! I got started in the late 1970's while racing with/against three or four cars that showed up regularly at CSRG events in Northern California. Couldn't help but notice the Zagato numbers that seemed as if they might tie in to similar numbers seen on Abarth Zagato cars, I even got to "race" 750060 once in the early 1980's. Thank you Marnix! Fortunately(?) I was given a very restricted rev limit and did not embarass myself (other than being slow) or damage the car as a result. I'd only raced in slower cars before that ride. That TZ ride was good for a grin that I remember well to this day!

The Zagato build number would be welcomed for any of these cars. The easiest place to find it on an unmolested car is stamped in the centers of the covers behind the headlamps, easily visble with the nose tilted up. Because it is possible that parts were mixed early in the lives of some cars, it is always nice to find the number in more than one location on any car. Numbers can be stamped, scratched or even finger painted in undercoating.

John de Boer
The Italian Car Registry
iicarATearthlink.net
 

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Zagato build numbers

Hello John.

The Zagato build number would be welcomed for any of these cars. The easiest place to find it on an unmolested car is stamped in the centers of the covers behind the headlamps, easily visble with the nose tilted up. Because it is possible that parts were mixed early in the lives of some cars, it is always nice to find the number in more than one location on any car. Numbers can be stamped, scratched or even finger painted in undercoating.

John de Boer
The Italian Car Registry
iicarATearthlink.net
Hello John,

Thank you for sharing this information. There so much to learn about these cars. I feel like an apprentice where it concerns knowlegde on these lovely cars.
I heard someone tell that some of the tubes in the bottom end of the chassis were oval shaped. It was said to be done to make the chassis sit lower and keep some level of clearance to the roadsurface. Can you tell if some of the tubes are oval and if yes, was the reason roadclearance?

Ciao, Olaf
 

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no oval tubes

Chassis tubes may be flattened somewhat at joints but they are not oval.
Besides, other parts of the car are lower such as the sump and some suspension ends, etc., etc.
(And, on top, the motor is canted as much as it is to provide a straight header exit between chassis tubes, not to lower the hood line.)
Chiti was much more pleased with the TZ2 (whose tubes I know nothing about!).
Richard B.
#102
 

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I thought so

Chassis tubes may be flattened somewhat at joints but they are not oval.
Besides, other parts of the car are lower such as the sump and some suspension ends, etc., etc.
(And, on top, the motor is canted as much as it is to provide a straight header exit between chassis tubes, not to lower the hood line.)
Chiti was much more pleased with the TZ2 (whose tubes I know nothing about!).
Richard B.
#102
Hello Richard,

Thank you for the explanation. It made no sense to me to flatten the tubes in the bottom half of the chassis of the TZ-1 to lower the ride as the suspension and engine amongst others are lower. But it is always nice to get these stories denied or confirmed by those who actually know. I personally never saw flattened tubes but as the person who told me this was persistant, I tought I'd better ask. And as this is 'off topic', back to the two TZ's we were talking about!

About #750051. So this car was crashed at Candlestick. I understand that it was destroyed accoording to the records of Alfa Romeo (?) and was rebuilt later. Great story and if so, another proof for the fact that things are not always what they seem to be. I am curious as to what new parts (chassis, body, driveline, suspension, etc) were needed to get #750051 back on the road.

Ciao, Olaf
 

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My father, Elwood " Mac" Macgowan owned chassis #51 from about 1970 to 1989? I stored it at various places for many years. It always seemed to be in my way too! And I was racing an FP Veloce Spider and then my EP Duetto on the west coast. We sold it to Said Marouf. It is supposedly being restored. My Dad bought the remains from a body shop in SF. I have pictures of the car as a wreck at the body shop. I have several pictures of the car. I will scan the pictures- as soon as I can find them- and post them here. Many bits were taken off the car by Gene Smith to put on his second TZ. It was bought from SF and raced in the SF region of SCCA for a few years. I talked to John Murphy at the Walter Mitty races at Road Atlanta in 1991 and mentioned his TZ looked like Gene Smith's old car_ second one_ and he was amazed that I knew that. I recognized the hood scoop from #51. I do not know what the chassis # is of the second TZ that Gene raced.
 
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