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Hello

I know this is a stupid idea but I plan to turbo my Milano Racecar....the car is a LeMons, Chumpcar, ECTA, and Rallycross veteran...The car still runs, figure this will finish it off, at the East Coast Timing assoc 1 mile speed trial. Is there a source for manifolds in the US?? I have a supply of turbos, intercoolers and piping as I run some turbo'd race cars and hopefully could do this fairly cheaply.

Thanks

Al Taylor
 

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There is a place that sells pre cut alfa v6 exhaust flanges and turbo flanges pretty cheap, someone posted about it on here before.
 

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I just had a thought, when I built my manifold i bought the steam pipe at 3$ and elbow 20$ flages and had a engineer weld it. Turned out to be a lot cheaper.

shane
 

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how long ago did you buy steam pipe bends?...they aint 3 bucks no more ;-) I got told 20 bucks a bend the other day from best mufflers.com...I said you must be joking.....he was not :-(
 

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how long ago did you buy steam pipe bends?...they aint 3 bucks no more ;-) I got told 20 bucks a bend the other day from best mufflers.com...I said you must be joking.....he was not :-(
Try Blackwoods or Onsteel Metaland. 'cause $20 is blatant stealing.
 

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Well, I am a believer in tubular manifolds like Callaway used. They work really well. However the cost of making them is way out of line for a Lemons car. I would use the stock manifolds and plumb them both into one turbo. This will do the job for a lemons car, and will be on budget.

Greg
 

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McMaster Carr is also really expensive for just about everything they sell. You would get the best price from and industrial pipe supplier like Duk suggested (like Ferguson in the US). For $20 an elbow you could probably get Sch 40 316 SS. I like Gregs idea the best and you could probably get away with normal thickness exhaust bends for the cross-over.
 

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Here are the Turbo manifolds I make, they are very similar to the Callaway design, except in the way the three pipes merge together. These are made from 304 stainless (that's what Callaway used). 409 stainless is inferior, and 321 stainless is just crazy expensive. No, I don't offer these for sale.

Greg,
Silicone Hose Kits
 

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Ok, I might have wandered a little off the subject here. There is no way stainless tubular manfolds will look reasonable on a Lemons car. The cost of the stainless steel alone screams big budget.

However, there are a couple ways to turbocharge a Milano on the cheap. I mean cheap, it won't be beautiful, it won't have perfect driveability at low rpm, and it won't last for years. It will run well from 3500rpm and up, hold up for 24 hours of abuse and give a lots of power.

In my opinion the best way (that means best for a lemons project, factoring in budget etc.) is to flip the exhaust manifolds upside down and run exhaust pipes to a single turbo (a Garrett sourced from a pre-1987 Ford Thunderbird Turbocoupe will work well and cost peanuts). Locate the turbo in either forward corner of the engine bay. Make sure to scavenge all the turbo drain line hardware you can from the salvage yard. If you buy it new that stuff is really expensive. Plumb the air through a junk yard intercooler. The Mitsubishi Fuso truck's unit works pretty well, fits in the Milano, and it looks like crap, perfect for this. Go with injectors about 50% larger than stock, and my black box (make it yourself to stay on budget, I posted the instructions somewhere on this site). Now you have boost, an intercooler, a fuel injection system that will do the job, and a low budget. It will be fast, and cheap, and it will last for this event. You will have to swap out the exhaust manifolds every race, so have a few sets.

Greg,
Silicone Hose Kits
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Hello

Thanks for the reply's, I was wondering about flipping the manifolds, that is how some of the e30 BMW guys do it, I have a set of the shorty shankle headers, was going to see how they fit. I have several Volvo, Audi and one Starion intercoolers, the Fuso is an interesting idea, I have access to those will have to check it out. On my BMW 324TDiC I had the intake manifold welded up and moved the intake to the opposite side to get a straight shot from the intercooler, will be interesting to see how this plumbs out....plenty of turbo birds in the local yard also but they have been scavenged pretty hard.

The car will not run in any more enduro's we finished both a LeMons and a ChumpCar 24 so the car is retired to Alfa Club track days and 1 mile speed trials..

Thanks

Al Taylor
 

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look for a old saab 900 in the junk yard they have intercooler that is easy to use and most junkyards will sale it very cheap.

I got a Mitsubishi TD04 off a 2002 WRX off ebay for a song.
I have not had the time to do it yet as I am driving the gold. And all my other cars are apart. Should be good for low boost 200-250bhp.
and I was hoping to fit it on the left side in the same spot that the starter goes on right side.

see
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/milano-75-1987-1989/151993-200-milano-gold-sale-san-luis-obispo-4.html#post842644
 

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Nice to see that says a lot, about flow but all the cooling is on the turbo (FWD)
How would it get on (rwd)??with cooling it would be under the brake booster.
all the best
shane
 

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look for a old saab 900 in the junk yard they have intercooler that is easy to use and most junkyards will sale it very cheap.

I got a Mitsubishi TD04 off a 2002 WRX off ebay for a song.
I have not had the time to do it yet as I am driving the gold. And all my other cars are apart. Should be good for low boost 200-250bhp.
and I was hoping to fit it on the left side in the same spot that the starter goes on right side.

see
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/milano-75-1987-1989/151993-200-milano-gold-sale-san-luis-obispo-4.html#post842644
There may be a degree of misunderstanding happening.
Are you planning a single turbo or twin turbo set up?
A single TD04 from a 2002 WRX would give the engine some pretty big, low rev torque gains, but the engine/turbo combination would probably fall flat on its face pretty quickly.
Water injection would be nice. It would help keep the thing alive and chase some more mid range and top end power that is probably going to be lost from the tiny turbine housing/wheel that will cause heat retention and high possibility of detonation.
It would be nice if you just happened to trip over an MSD 6A as well :p
The factory single turbo set up isn't really applicable in a 75/Milano. They put the turbo in a spot used for incidental things on the TA chassis like engine mounts and chassis rails :p. There are some very good pictures on GTV6.com showing some single turbo set ups, as well as Greg's customers twin turbo Milano.
 

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That is what I want to try for on my gold is very much like the alfa system. if I can make it fit. For me I want it hidden unless you look very close. I got the WRK turbo as it is physically tiny. And seemed to be a good match for a stock 2.5L. Could I get more power with a bigger turbo yes. But I think if it is in the 200 - 250 BHP range I would be happy for the 2.5L which is now like 130ish or so. I like my projects to look stock. if you have never seen the car before you should think it came that way.

Can it fit there I do not know. For a lemons mount up on top let it look like crap. space is not a problem them.
BTW I got a set of the cut flanges that was talked about a while ago. I just ordered one and a set. they look good. but I have not done anything with them yet.
I also got a big SS down pipe off ebay for a song for the WRX, it is very shiny and came with the gaskets. I plan on cutting and rewelding it to fit. it was way cheaper then getting a flange and gasket. plus I get a good length of large pipe.
 

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Has anybody thought of doing a remote moted turbo in a Milano? There is a company that specializes in them:
Squires Turbo Systems - Turbocharged Innovation!

Seems like with some creativity you could probably replicate it really cheap and if the car is LeMons, you don't have to worry about looks. Heck, you could mount the turbo on the floor in the backseat and run the charge pipes thought the interior and out the fire wall. Also, you could run the exhaust through a hole in the rear door. The only complication I can think of is that you would need to pump the return oil to back to the motor. The plumbing part isn't difficult, but what type of pump would you use? And what flow rate?
 

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How Alfa did it with the V6 and single turbo!
The 2L V6 and 205 HP as used int the 916 GTV and 166. Some ideas could arise of how to merge the two exhaust sides to a single inlet to the turbocharger.
That's a cool set up, but it's VERY tough to duplicate in a GTV6/Milano chassis because the steering mechanism is in the way. It's a whole lot easier to mount it forward in the engine bay, like in a Buick Grand National (also a V6 rear drive car), but offset to the side.

Greg,
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OKINJECTORS.COM
 

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Has anybody thought of doing a remote moted turbo in a Milano? There is a company that specializes in them:
Squires Turbo Systems - Turbocharged Innovation!

Seems like with some creativity you could probably replicate it really cheap and if the car is LeMons, you don't have to worry about looks. Heck, you could mount the turbo on the floor in the backseat and run the charge pipes thought the interior and out the fire wall. Also, you could run the exhaust through a hole in the rear door. The only complication I can think of is that you would need to pump the return oil to back to the motor. The plumbing part isn't difficult, but what type of pump would you use? And what flow rate?
That's good creative thinking, but there are all sorts of problems with that idea. First of all these cars have inboard rear brakes, that turbo will be close to the rear brakes, the pipe that feeds it will be right next to a brake caliper. It's enough of a problem to keep the rear brakes cool in these cars as it is, especially for a LONG race.

The second problem is expense and weight. This adds a lot of pipe, pipe bending and or couplers to the equation. Add in the cost of an oil pump to return the oil to the engine and all the extra lines and fittings, and it gets a lot more expensive than an underhood turbo.

The third problem is performance. A few years ago I was at a dyno shop in Lewisville Texas that's big in turbocharging Mustangs and other American V8s. These guys actually make a twin turbo system for the SVT Cobra Mustang, and they know their stuff. Anyway, they were busy wrapping the entire exhaust system of a pickup truck to try and get the STS rear mounted turbo to spool up, lag was terrible, and boost threshold unacceptable.

These remotely mounted turbos have been around for a long time, at least since 1939, probably a lot earlier. There is a pretty good reason no major manufacturer has ever used them with any success.

These systems do have their place, I just don't think it's in a Lemons Alfa.

Greg
 
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