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Discussion Starter #41
Quote:
Originally Posted by flivesay
If the t-bar is correctly located and all the bushings are tight maybe you should go back to the front end. I believe you said you haven't replaced the upper and lower wishbone bushes? When I replaced the upper and lower ones on my spider, I didn't realize there was anything wrong with them. No clunking or any other direct bushing symptoms noticed. I was just completely replacing all suspension components so I wouldn't have to go back in (or wonder if I should have after I put it back together). If never replaced they are 48 years old and have the hard job of locating the front wheels at whatever angle you ask them for. I was amazed at the condition of the lowers. They were rusted, seized and pretty much fell apart as I disassembled. I replaced all using a lower type for the lowers and uppers. The consensus seems to support using a lower for the upper because it has a compound joint movement compared to the original uppers. If they are moving under a load, the wheel could shift forward or rearward and maybe cause what you are seeing? Just a thought--

posted by Brad
I replaced the front lower inner a arm bushings years ago. Maybe I should replace the upper arm complete, that gets new ball joint inner bush and castor bush? Maybe this is fairly normal symptom I have and I am to fussy and over thinking it.
AGCO Automotive Repair Service - Baton Rouge, LA - Detailed Auto Topics - How To Find The Cause Of A Torque Steer Pull
 

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Discussion Starter #42
Quote:
Originally Posted by flivesay
Nothing like a good puzzle--until you get frustrated. Looking at the video on post 167 and reading where the steering shifts one way on acceleration and the other on deceleration, it makes sense to me that as you reduce and then increase the weight on the front wheels you get a steering effect caused by the pivot point changing. But then again I may be totally off base. I don't believe its a common to the car symptom--mine doesn't do it and I have the same drivetrain and suspension you have--including the OE rearend. The only set of bushings I didn't replace were the trailing arm bushings and the t-arm end bushings--they are original.

posted by Brad
I usually like a good troubleshooting puzzle, but at times I am getting a little annoyed/frustrated. Just got off the phone with my 67 Stang buddy, he said his car pulls and wanders all over. Yeah but my car is an Alfa and should be perfect!
 

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Discussion Starter #43
My Stang buddy and I went for an Alfa drive, he checked out the driving dynamics of my Alfa and thought every thing was good except for that little bit of torque steer. He thinks it is still coming from rear as it does not pull on the steering wheel, and bumps don't affect it. He is puzzled as well. (trained at college as an auto technician)
 

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Discussion Starter #44
H.D. Bushings

H.D. Bushings
Video showing left & right sides with new H.D.bushings, the old marking tape is unmoved from last videos (little dirtier and some black paint on it)
 

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Discussion Starter #45
How to Centralize axel ?

Was going to replace the T bar conical bushings at the rear axel with poly Super Flex from CA. Removed the left (easy one) perfect shape rubber. Realized I need to remove exhaust to replace both bushings. May leave this for another day.
Got to looking and measuring T bar location, it looks like today when I measure at full droop the axel is 2mm more to the left side of the car. I measured wheel hub to bump stop bracket.
Is there a better place to measure???? Should it be measured at ride height??
I measured this a month ago and it looked to be within a mm of equal?
 

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Discussion Starter #46
Put in the easy left poly bush and now the axel is 1.5 mm right of centre, at droop and ride height. Guess I should get both poly in and measure again.
 

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Discussion Starter #47
Got my caster/camber gauge in the mail last week. Checked my GTV, both front wheels about -1 degree camber, caster LF 3.2 degrees RF 2.5 degrees. Toe in was 1mm. Dialed LF back to 2.9 degrees. Will likely dial it back a bit closer to 2.5 later. So nothing there that would make me think the car should throttle steer.
 

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Discussion Starter #48 (Edited)
Maybe a Eureka Moment!

I was laying under my Alfa checking alignment and wondering about the throttle steer. I had a bit of a eureka moment. I was staring at the idler arm noticing it wasn’t parallel the frame rail, like the steering arm was. I measured the distance from the center of the inner A-arm to the closest tie rod end on the track bar. The left side was about 16mm right side was about 21 mm. My tie rods were about 271mm long on the left side and about 267mm on the right. So right in the middle of the acceptable range and very close to 5mm shorter on the right side as specified by Alfa. I have never liked the 5mm difference and have set them equal in the past or even split the difference and set right side only 2 – 3mm shorter. But I did set them up with right side close to 5 mm shorter when I got my new tires and GTA rims several years ago. With this length of tie rods, the center track bar needed to be about 553 mm, which is 3 mm longer than the max length. So I made the right rod 271 just like the left and shortened the center bar to 549, this still gave me my 1mm toe in and a centered steering wheel and made the track bar ends equal distance from the center of the inner A-arm bushings. This also made the idler arm parallel the frame rail like the steering arm, both pointing straight back instead of the idler pointing off at a slight angle.
I am sure unequal length tie rods will affect bump steer in a negative way, so I am happy to run it this way.
A few years ago I phoned Papajam on the topic of throttle steer and alignment. I had posted the question on ABB re why 5mm shorter on the right side. Didn’t get a satisfactory answer from anyone. So I asked Papajam directly if he could think of a reason why 5mm shorter on the right side (from 1970 onward the specs say). Papajam could not think of a reason why. I think he said he knew of no difference in the idler arms or another steering/suspension components that would need asymmetrical tie rod lengths. I think Jim usually follows the book when it comes to Alfa but he said to me that he would make them the same. So 3 years later I am following his advice.
So I did go for a test drive yesterday but it was very windy and gusty so I am not 100% sure it fixed the throttle steer but it seemed a lot better. I will test drive my GTV again on a calm day on a smooth straight road.
 

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Discussion Starter #49
The final cure for my throttle steer was to stiffen the old red Konis to full hard on the front from 1/3 up from full soft. PSK/Pete suggested checking the shocks.
What do you think of these castor bushings?
 

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I'd change them ,anything showing cracks IMO should be changed.
I'd try polys on those. What does worn caster bushings do to 105s handling, I know misadjusted caster arms make the car pull to side?
 

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Discussion Starter #52
I finally installed my new poly castor bushings from Classic Alfa
1619735
1619736
on the front upper arm while still in the car. I obviously unbolted the castor arm at the upper suspension arm and removed and installed with a 3/8'' rod some 3/8'' nuts some washers and a big 36mm socket to pull them into. Those are the old original bushings in my photos. They were so easy to remove, I think because they are not steel on the outer diameter and the bores were in perfect condition, not a spec of rust. 1969 and older may be a problem, steel on steel.
 

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Discussion Starter #53
Also last September I installed both poly rear conical bushings at the T-bar.
 

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Discussion Starter #54
Went for a drive, the new bushings feel good. The steering wheel is centered perfectly on a straight road. Toe-in is 1mm, both outer bars are 271mm and the center is 550mm.
 

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Discussion Starter #56
A little bit of this and that. I think stiffening up the front shocks helped the most. But all the new parts and adjustments were a step in the right direction. (equal tie tod length)
 
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