Alfa Romeo Forums banner

1 - 20 of 32 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,505 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi guys,

My poor little Alfetta Sedan has started rusting lately and it's progressing quite quickly. The rust is mostly around the windshield and rear window and is limited to no more than about 5 inches long by maybe two inches wide so it's not too bad yet, but most of this has happened in the last 9 months and I'm in LA so that's with no rain.

Anyways, I need something just to stop the rust from progressing. I don't plan on painting this car anytime soon and the paint is not pretty so my main concern is to preserve the body with no concern for aesthetics.

Is POR-15 the stuff to use? Is this what I need:

POR-15 Super Starter Kit Gloss Black

And will this stop all the rust or is it impossible to stop it when it's next to the window? I assume it's probably rusting from inside/underneath the window as well.

Thanks for any rust tips.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
16,999 Posts
I've used POR-15 and had good results. Clean off any loose rust but don't try to clean it off to shiney metal. The POR-15 seems to need some rust to convert or cling onto or something. Do make sure any other foreign matter is removed - oil, wax, etc.

I have also used 'rust converter' in both spray cans and brush on. Again, remove loose rust then apply to otherwise clean/solid metal and it changes to a black coating.

If you can get inside the area, it'd be a good idea to apply something to stave off continued rust there. Eastwood has some spray can stuff with long 'straws' you might consider. Or, if there is access, a stick with a wad of cloth to brush in the treatment of your choice.

Note that Por-15 and other rust treatment usually need an overcoat for UV protection. I'm not sure if that is for appearance sake or if the UV actually breaks down the Por-15.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
904 Posts
Note that Por-15 and other rust treatment usually need an overcoat for UV protection. I'm not sure if that is for appearance sake or if the UV actually breaks down the Por-15.
UV only affects the color, doesn't compromise the coating.

sugarloaf - POR works well but you MUST read and follow their instructions or you won't be happy with the results (like with any of these sorts of products). That means proper degreasing and treating with zinc phosphate. Also, wire brush good, wire wheel bad. I have a lot of experience with these products, and combinations of them, up here in the salty winters. My personal favorite is Zero Rust, topcoated with POR chassis coat black for the under body.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,505 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for the info so far. I also have some spots where the rust is bubbling up under the paint. what is the best way to treat these areas?

(I'll post some pics once it stops raining here.)
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
16,999 Posts
I also have some spots where the rust is bubbling up under the paint. what is the best way to treat these areas?
I would suggest wire brushing/coarse sand paper until you are back to solid, unrusted metal. Then choose the treatment of your choice. Worst case scenario is that it is rusting from behind and you'll find rust holes. Then you get to learn how to weld - cut back to solid metal and weld in new.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
190 Posts
I hate to say it, but I wonder if you shouldn't remove the glass. I have a desert car, and even it had the rust around the front and back windows. Thing is, someone had dutifully cleaned up the rust around the windshield, but the problem was where it had rusted through under the windshield gasket. Just my two cents.

Nick
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,879 Posts
They rust from the inside out.

That said, you are best to remove the glass to have any chance of stopping it for any reasonable period.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,505 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
I think removing the glass is really beyond my ability and/or finances even though I realize this is what is needed.

here are some pics so you can see what I'm dealing with. It's getting quite bad and while I know you've all seen worse, this car has basically stayed the same for 10 years and now all of a sudden it's progressing so quickly, it's scary. The worst bit at the rear window actually has a very small (1/8" or less) puncture through the metal in the center of the rust which I'm sure has allowed moisture inside.

Also, a large amount has started under the paint near the alfetta badge. Can this just be overcoated to stop or slow it down or do I have to scrape the paint away first?


Front windshield:




Rear window:




Rear bubbling under paint:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
247 Posts
I fear that the rust will continue to eat away unless you can cut out the crumbling stuff and weld in new metal. Surface treatment with rust inhibitor may delay process if metal below is solid. However Looks like a lot of this is rusted through on your car and surface treatment won't really help.
I learnt welding to deal with this stuff.
Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,879 Posts
Won't be long before the glass removes itself or cracks.
As before, they rust from the inside out... It will be much worse on the inside of the panel.

You either need to cut out and replace the metal or watch it grow.
Over painting from the top will only hide the problem, sorry.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,331 Posts
I think removing the glass is really beyond my ability and/or finances even though I realize this is what is needed.

here are some pics so you can see what I'm dealing with. It's getting quite bad and while I know you've all seen worse, this car has basically stayed the same for 10 years and now all of a sudden it's progressing so quickly, it's scary. The worst bit at the rear window actually has a very small (1/8" or less) puncture through the metal in the center of the rust which I'm sure has allowed moisture inside.

Also, a large amount has started under the paint near the alfetta badge. Can this just be overcoated to stop or slow it down or do I have to scrape the paint away first?


Front windshield:




Rear window:




Rear bubbling under paint:
As others have said, that car has significant rust brewing. You better remove the glass to get to it properly as those are the most important and difficult to repair areas. It really looks to be too late to really "treat" the rust in the front/rear glass cowling areas based on the photos (almost always worse where you can't see it). Around the trunk/etc. is also bad stuff brewing but it's a far less complex repair to undertake. You could have the glass removed for very little $ (like $40-$50 for each). Then you can really start to assess and treat it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
190 Posts
If this is your daily driver...I guess there's only so much you can do. But if you can be without the car for a little while, I'd encourage you to dive in. One learns by doing. You could work with a local place that doesn't necessarily want to do the low tech, time consuming stuff, and you could save a lot of money. (eg removing and reinstalling head liner. Using a wire wheel to get to solid metal, etc.) They could do the skill work, eg welding, body work, etc. Dude, I know what I know, and don't know what I don't know. But, I know a lot more than I used to. And I learned it by doing it...and effing up sometimes. I'm new to Alfas, but mine had less rust showing, and the lip that held the windshield was 80% gone along the top. In my case, I welded and Bondoed myself, but I had a pro bend the sheet metal for me.

Nick
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,505 Posts
Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Thanks everyone but as I've said, removing the glass and doing it right is not an option at this point. This car lives outside as do all my cars because I have no garage, no driveway, and only one spot for 4 cars in LA. The alfetta gets the one spot since it is not registered at this point. I'm just trying to see what options exist for slowing it down and protecting it as best I can until better days and more money come around.

I suppose POR-15 is about the best I can do at this point. Hopefully it will protect it enough for now. I am in LA so that's a good thing for rust but we are entering the rainy season and this year looks to be more rainy than the past few years have been.

I'm surprised there aren't more rust treating options in our modern day of better-living-through-chemicals.

And i can always cut the roof off and make a convertible.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,331 Posts
Thanks everyone but as I've said, removing the glass and doing it right is not an option at this point. This car lives outside as do all my cars because I have no garage, no driveway, and only one spot for 4 cars in LA. The alfetta gets the one spot since it is not registered at this point. I'm just trying to see what options exist for slowing it down and protecting it as best I can until better days and more money come around.

I suppose POR-15 is about the best I can do at this point. Hopefully it will protect it enough for now. I am in LA so that's a good thing for rust but we are entering the rainy season and this year looks to be more rainy than the past few years have been.

I'm surprised there aren't more rust treating options in our modern day of better-living-through-chemicals.

And i can always cut the roof off and make a convertible.....
Hmmm. Roughly translated is "well thanks for the advice everyone but I'm not going to follow any of it." You might as well just leave it as-is. The rust you're seeing is likely minimal compared to what's hiding.

Here's some tough love: you created a thread asking for advice about treating "surface rust." Multiple BB'ers help you identify that no, it's not surface rust and it should be addressed, and give you sound advice about maximizing the potential to preserve the car (which you want, it seems). Opinion: if you can't spend $50 for each glass screen to be removed professionally to so you can at least address the rust, you might want to consider selling it to someone who can afford to keep it from rusting away. Opinions are like.... Fact: of course, it's your car and can do whatever you want with it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,505 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Dude, you are so unhelpful. You always post either obvious info which I already know or things I'm not able to do. I have no garage! So I remove the windows at $50 (Jesus, I don't know where you live but no one here will touch a car for that!) and then I have a car with no windows outside and days of body work which I don't know how to do and which is not even legal to do in a parking lot in LA. Yeah, great idea! I'll get right on that. Gee thanks but I've been clear in my needs and questions so if you can't offer anything helpful, please stay out of my threads because you NEVER provide anything useful. Sorry and don't mean to be difficult but I'm sick of your replies time and time again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
190 Posts
I feel your pain. Sounds like your situation doesn't leave a lot of options. I've always been into cycling. At one point I was cleaning my road bike in the shower of my Manhattan studio apartment. LOL.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,879 Posts
POR 15 is your best option given the circumstances.

Hope everything else going on works out for you.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,851 Posts
Having owned and driven a 75 Alfetta sedan which started to rust before our very eyes from new, esp around the windows, but also at the suspension pickup points in the engine bay, and other areas, etc. In an area where Alfas from any other year don't rust worth talking about. I can sympathize with your concerns.

Our 78 sedan on the other hand had almost no rust (just one surface spot at the bottom corner of the windshield, of course, and easily fixed properly) for the 180k miles we drove it in Seattle, and now the car lives a sweet life south of Boston, looking very good, judging by the last pictures I saw of it.

My advice, which you won't want to hear, is that you should really think about selling it to someone who can quickly save the car; otherwise, based on our experience, you will most likely end up with a car which really would be difficult to save without a great deal of work and money. Your description of your circumstances indicates that this stands a good chance of not happening any time in the near future.

Trust me, you just don't have much time to save a 75, 76, or 77 Alfetta if it starts to rust, as it is everywhere in the car. the internal stuff just starts to show up later on the outside. The metal and internal rust proofing was just no good from the factory new. Our 75 most likely didn't make it to 100k miles, the way the rust took off on it. We sold it when it had 80k miles on it, in just 5 years, and quite frankly, I didn't think the car was safe, even with really trying to stop the rust we could see. There appeared to be a ton of internal rust in structural members.

It just took us by surprise, as the Alfa we had owned before than was a 64 Giulia Sprint GT, which in 260k miles of driving in 11 years as a daily driver, just didn't rust except a very little around the stainless window trim clips which caused galvanic corrosion in the metal where they clipped in, easily fixed.

Hanging on to this car in your situation would not be a good choice, in my own opinion and experience. I'm truly sorry. We really liked our 75, as it seemed sportier to drive than the 78, but the 78 was the car which lasted. The car was a winner, and even the clutch lasted that time.

Go ahead and use whatever you can to stop what you see, but also buy a car cover to help keep rain off. They really do help. But, think seriously about your long term circumstances and whether or not in real life you can save this car by keeping it. Alas, too many cars end up languishing and rusting away in a parking spot or sideyard because the car wasn't sold to one who could restore them (I know of a reasonable MGA Coupe in exactly that condition, slowly moldering away because the guy couldn't bear to sell it to a restorer. Sad).

Good luck, and maybe look for a 78 or 79 sedan, or get a really neat Milano, similar to the Alfetta, or a great 164 at a lower price in good condition, which I really ended up preferring (well, the wife still misses the 78, have to admit, although her Milano is still great with ZERO rust at 100k miles).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
224 Posts
To slow rust down I use Fish Oil paint - don't know what it is called in the USA. It looks a bit like varnish but doesn't dry and stays tacky - and doesn't smell too bad. I strip as much interior as required and then heavily fog it into all the cavities I can find - park it somewhere you don't care about as it will drip out for a while and make a big mess! For external "mask the problem" repairs I knock off all the flaky rust, then use rust convertor/primer, bog any holes and then just paint over it to try and seal it. Doesn't look great but it seems to slow things down.

Fogging fish oil into all the cavities really slows rust down - but I don't think you can paint over fish oil so do it after you've done your external patching.
 
1 - 20 of 32 Posts
Top