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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

I had a collision with my spider veloce '86 about two years ago. It took me a while to spare enough cash to have it fixed but it finally happened. I'm based in Vancouver BC and it was also hard to find a good person to work on my car.

On friday I went to get my car with a new battery I just bought, I put the battery in, and put the key in the ignition. I turn the key to the first step, and everything was looking ok. The lights, signals were working normally, the dashboard lights too, the gauges were working, and the door alarm was sounding because the door was open.

Then I tried to start the car, and then nothing happen except everything shut down. All the lights switched off, no more sound, nothing. The starter made the same 'click' that when you have a weak battery. I of course checked the battery and had 12.4V on it.

Even when I removed the key and put it back in I had no sign of life at all.

I proceeded to check the fuses and they seemed to be ok (I didn't had a multimeter) and then removed the relays. I put back the relays, and then the same scenario happened, everything seems ok, until I turned the key to start the engine, and then everything turned black.

If anybody have an idea about this, or can show me a way to dignose the problem that would be awesome. I guess I'll first have to check all the groung connections.

Thanks,
v.
 

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Yes, I would suggest first checking all ground connections. Then all the positive connections (do those with the battery disconnected!). A marginal connection can pass enough electrons to switch on the ignition but when asked to pass a lot of electrons to start the engine the connection will fail leading to the symptoms you describe.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Ok, good to know it's a kind of known syndrom.

I also have seen papajam can provide electrical diagrams but I don't know with is the version of my car, are all of these the same diagramm?

11541 2000 Spider Veloce 1977 California R4

11541 2000 Spider Veloce 1978 R6

11541 2000 Spider Veloce 1979 R5

11541 Spider Veloce 1980 R6

11541 Spider Veloce 1981 R5

11541 Spider Veloce 1982 R14

11541 Spider 2.0 1983 R14

11541 Spider 2.0 1984 R18

11541 Spider 2.0 1985 R7

11541 Spider 1986 R14

11541 Spider 1987 w/bullet style fuses R14

11541 Spider 1987 w/blade style fuses R16

11541 Spider 1988 R17


Also what is the good way to check connection? using a multimeter with the ring/alarm only?
 

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Someone may have retrofitted an inertia switch, or it may be a country of destination thing.

Barring that, check wires at starter motor, battery main at same point.Also the alternator + junction @ left inner fenderwell
.

If crash was head on ish make sure wires/contact plugs are fully seated in back of fusebox,
 

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If you have a 86 then 11541 Spider 1986 R14 should be for you.

Make sure battery connections are good, ground connection near battery is good, and chassis to engine bonding/grounding strap is good.

An ohm meter on the lowest scale. Zero ohms is what you will be aiming for.

If you find a connection in the starter circuit of only a single ohm it can cause significant voltage drop across that connection. The starter is rated for a max current of 290 amps so getting that much current through a bad connection is tough.

Ohm's Law, E=IxR or

volts equals current(amps) times resistance(ohms),

current(amps) equals volts/resistance(ohms),

resistance equals volts /current(amps)

12 volts / 0.1 ohm = 120 amps, not quite enough to run the starter under full load.
 

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Inertia switch wouldn't reset itself, nor would a blown fuse. I'm thinking this may be as simple as a loose battery connection or loose ground cable, either from the battery to the body or the body to the engine.

If that's not it, try to jump start it. It's unusual for a new battery to be bad but not unheard of. The volts can be fine but if there's an internal problem it won't put out any amps.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Ok I'll check the connections first with a multimeter. I may also try to jumpstart the car after.
I feel dumb, I should have tried because I was a the garage with my other car and had cables.

Well I'm kinda happy that nobody seems surprised by the 'no life' symptoms.
 

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1986 does not have inertial switch.
Elio
My '83 Spider supposedly has one, as it's mentioned in the owner's manual and in the owner's manual wiring diagram.
 

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I would have an assistant put your volt meter across the battery and see if the voltage disappears when you try to start it. I had a battery once that did this, apparently it had a bad connection on the inside, it was enough for a volt meter to work but opened up under load.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I'm gonna have the car towed to a friend's place tomorrow. I can use his garage and meter for a week.
I'll all let you know what I'll find.

v.
 

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My '83 Spider supposedly has one, as it's mentioned in the owner's manual and in the owner's manual wiring diagram.

I think ALL cars with an electric fuel pump were supposed to have an inertial switch at one point. SPICA cars have one on the firewall that's supposed to cut out in a rollover. I disconnected mine after it kept cutting out over bumps. Inertia switches can get finicky.

Modern cars '90s and later use different methods of cutting off fuel delivery in the event of a crash. I think it's still a requirement, and a good one.

Here's another thread on them: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/spider-1966-up/61617-inertia-switch-bosch-spider-ran-when-parked.html



Assuming your car's engine did not run at any time after the impact, the inertia switch is the first thing I'd check.
 

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Prolo:


1. If your battery is reading 12.40 volts then it's only about 75% charged. A fully charged batter should read at least 12.60 volts. Note: that voltage is with no current drain on the battery. The first thing I would do is put it on a charger for a little while and top up the charge. That still won't explain why everything goes black until you pull the relays and reinstall them. It sounds like you may have a few weak connections AND a battery that needs charging.

2. Inertial switches for the fuel pumps came in about 1976. My '73 GTV doesn't have one, my dearly departed '76 Alfetta did. The switch only cuts off current to the fuel pump; it shouldn't prevent the starter and indicator lights from functioning correctly.

Best of luck figuring it out!
Bob Stewart

'73 GTV
Salem, OR
 

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I think ALL cars with an electric fuel pump were supposed to have an inertial switch at one point.

Assuming your car's engine did not run at any time after the impact, the inertia switch is the first thing I'd check.
They all DID have the inertia switch. Part way through the Series 3 Spider run (1984-ish?) it was decided the inertia switch was redundant (and failure prone...) so it was eliminated. In the EFI cars the drive relay controls power to the fuel pumps. If the engine is not running the fuel pumps do not get powered on. (the only exception is when the key is turned to 'start' - there is a drive relay bypass circuit to ensure the fuel pumps run while the engine is being turned over by the starting motor) Interestingly the wire harness was not changed. In the later cars without the inertia switch the two wires that used to go to the inertia switch were simply connected together inside the main harness run along the firewall.

Anyway, the inertia switch would not prevent the engine from cranking or cause all the electrical systems to go dead. The fuel pumps would just not supply fuel (thus the engine will not start).
 
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