[iachella]

Before I buy a brand new torque wrench to replace mine, I thought I'd ask this question. It's probably a long shot.

My old torque wrench (40 years old at least) was not operating right, and I saw some you tube videos on how to take it apart and clean and re grease the little roller tip inside. Well the roller tip was indeed crusted with old dry grease and I was cleaning it out and trying to remove the two little ball bearings next to the roller, and I broke the case holding them.

So - is there a source for this little part? I don't expect there is as I have not found anything on an internet search.

Thanks,

 

[andylarry]

You didn't mention what brand torque wrench it is. Snap-On, Mac, Stanley, Cornwall, even Craftsman; you might be able to get parts for. Anything made in China, I doubt it.

 

[DPeterson3]

Before I buy a brand new torque wrench to replace mine, I thought I'd ask this question. It's probably a long shot.

My old torque wrench (40 years old at least) was not operating right, and I saw some you tube videos on how to take it apart and clean and re grease the little roller tip inside. Well the roller tip was indeed crusted with old dry grease and I was cleaning it out and trying to remove the two little ball bearings next to the roller, and I broke the case holding them.

So - is there a source for this little part? I don't expect there is as I have not found anything on an internet search.

Thanks,

View attachment 1753884

Hola Iachella,

I strongly recommend you abandon click-type wrenches in favor of either a bending-beam, or a dial-beam design. Some of the latter can be had with vibration indication, also.

I've offered this discussion on here before, and it is common to get a lot of resistance to what I am presenting. That's OK. In my opinion the push back is from hobbyists, and my position is based upon working and instructing in both aircraft maintenance and industrial calibration of analytical equipment.

If you wish to achieve highly reliable and repeatable tensioning of critical fasteners, a click-type wrench is not really the tool to use. For a serious hobbyist, any good quality bending beam is going to do a great job, and has no moving or wearing parts to replace. I'm still using my Craftsman from maybe 50 years ago, and it checks on-spec every time I check it.

 

[Gubi]

I've offered this discussion on here before, and it is common to get a lot of resistance to what I am presenting. That's OK. In my opinion the push back is from hobbyists, and my position is based upon working and instructing in both aircraft maintenance and industrial calibration of analytical equipment.

I mean, the reason you get push back is that in all my time repairing cars, reading about repairing cars, doing engineering as a day job, and reading published technical information, you're the only person who's ever made the argument that beam torque wrenches are more repeatable.

My wife has worked in aerospace for 22 years as a mechanical engineer; they don't have a single beam type torque wrench in the place. All clickers. She's never heard of what you're talking about either. So it's not just hobbyists who disagree with you, no.

Beam wrenches are fine if you know how to use them: they're cheap and don't go out of calibration (or if they do, it's obvious and they can be quickly fixed). They're also less precise, harder to use in general, have parallax issues, and are basically impossible to use in confined spaces or in weird positions. I hate the dang things, and I'd never recommend someone new to wrenching start with one.

Just get clickers and check/calibrate them once and again. A digital gauge to do so is pretty cheap.

 

[DPeterson3]

Tom…

It’s your sort of reply that discourages further efforts to help.

I no longer have the spirit to debate this. My position is not one of faith. It is heavily documented, and proven process. But, your faith is too powerful to oppose..

It is observed that a scientist’s two favorite conditions are “wrong” and “confused”, because this means they have something new to learn.

An engineer is happiest with when following instruction.

 

[Gubi]

Dang, Don: that whirring sound you hear is my eyes rolling. I really hope you weren't that condescending to people at work! And seriously, if that's your opinion of engineers, then you've worked with crappy engineers.

I mean, I'd be hurt, but I'm an engineer and thus have no imagination nor soul.

You want to convince me? If it's heavily documented, then cite some recent references. Because I'm not seeing nor have never seen anything that agrees with your assessment. It's basically "all types (beam, click, dial, digital) work well if properly calibrated and operated"

The practical issue is that beam torque wrenches are just awful to use on cars. Between the parallax issues, needing to watch the scale, needing to balance the handle on the pivot, and usually being non-ratcheting they just generally suck. And even if they were somehow more accurate (doubtful) or precise (definitely not) its not to any degree that would matter when working on a car.

I could train an amateur to use a click wrench properly in about five minutes. I sure as heck wouldn't trust them with a beam one, especially doing anything in a tight space like an engine bay or under a car. You're doing the hobbyists you seem to disdain a disservice by telling them to use a crappy, hard-to-use tool in pursuit of nonexistent gains in performance.

 

[Gubi]

Anyway, Stefano: while I appreciate the desire to fix an old tool, this one is probably not worth it. Even if you were to fix it you have no idea if you can trust the calibration any more.

If you want a cheap solution, the Harbor Freight Pittsburgh wrenches are a screaming deal for the hobbyist. If you look online you can find many tests of them: they've been proven to be accurate out of the box and reliable. I had a set and regularly checked calibration myself and never had them go out of spec.

For higher end click wrenches, Harbor Freight has their Icon line which is meant to compete with the tool trucks. I've never used them but, again, they seem to have pretty good performance from online reviews and testing. Do a search.

If you want to spend more money, I upgraded to a set of GearWrench digital wrenches and can highly recommend them. They're a little less forgiving than the clickers (because they don't "give" at the torque limit they're more sensitive to proper technique to avoid going over) but if you know what you're doing with a wrench then they're the bee's knees.

 

[DPeterson3]

Tom…. Once you’ve calmed down, it might be worth discussing.

 

[ossodiseppia]

A tactful response to someone's post is always better than one that is not.

 

[Gubi]

Guys, you should know me by this point: I’m always animated. Don’t take that as being angry, lol. Next time I’ll add a smiley after the “no soul” joke to better convey the tone.

I don't take anything on faith (again: I have no soul, lol) but I can be convinced. But you'll need more than "I can't be troubled to explain things to the hoi polloi, and here's a couple of worn-out stereotypes" though. If the data are heavily documented then publish some references, and then convince me that the practical difference is significant enough in day-to-day repair to use a crappier, harder-to-use tool.

Most folks around here probably barely even use a torque wrench, you know. So trying to convince folks they need to use a specific type of torque wrench (and a particularly sucky-to-use one at that) is a bit ivory tower at best.

 

[iachella]

You didn't mention what brand torque wrench it is.

It's a brand called KABO. I did not post the brand since the videos I watched all had this same exact part no matter what the brand was, so I assumed the internal design was all the same. The outer shaft is also all the same; a flat portion near the ratchet tapering to a cylinder down where the spring and other mechanisms are.

I believe someone in my family has one of those beam style ones. My father left many tools to one of my brothers and he is looking for it. I do remember seeing it when I was younger.

I'm sorry this created a bit of an argument. I think the use of all tools are subject to the users' preference. I had been thinking the beam style would be more accurate if one could easily watch the dial straight on and slowly stop at the right value. Head bolts looking straight down should be a good application, especially if the engine is on a stand.

I do have one of those digital torque readouts that consists of a box with a screen and a 1/2" drive and a 1/2" hole for use with your own 1/2" breaker bar. I was getting different readings when I compared to my torque wrench a year ago, but maybe it's because the grease inside the roller of the torque wrench was so crusty and the roller did not roll at all, nor did the ball bearings.

The digital box is by Pittsburgh. Are those generally reliable?

Thanks,

 

[andylarry]

I toured the Lamborghini factory in 2019. They used click type torque wrenches with audible report while assembling the engines. I don’t remember if they were V10, or V12.

 

[Gubi]

I'm sorry this created a bit of an argument

No need for you to apologize, Stefano - it's just a spirited debate

I have one of those digital torque gauges (not the Pittsburgh one but a similar Powerbuilt one that's probably made in the same factory). It always correlated well with my other wrenches, so my guess is that your mechanical wrench was off, especially given the issues you found.

Problem with the gauge is that - because of the bulk - I found it challenging to use in automotive applications. So I never really used it for jobs, but it was a very good way to DIY periodic calibration on my other wrenches. Just buying the gauge is cheaper than what most places will charge you to calibrate a wrench or two.

Here are the types of plots I used it for.

 

[Gubi]

I toured the Lamborghini factory in 2019. They used click type torque wrenches with audible report while assembling the engines. I don’t remember if they were V10, or V12.

Well, we all know how that turned out:

 

[Lokki]

Wrench design characteristics aside, I don't know how much faith I would be able to put in the consistent accuracy of a 40 year old torque wrench worn to the point of needing repair, and then repaired with generic parts.

At some point you just have to let go.

Now as what design with which to replace it.... I have no opinions.

 

[andylarry]

Some Snap-On tool trucks have a device that will check the accuracy of your torque wrenches, while you wait. I have never been charged for this service.

 

[Vivace]

Some time ago I sprung for a Snap-On 20-100 clicker wrench. It was worth it. Good tools feel good in your hand and are nice to use. After a few years, I had a loose screw (those tiny ones in the head) that I couldn't get to thread into its hole because of tension on the plate. I wasn't going to stick a sharp tool in there and pry on it.

I found the Snap-On truck schedule and popped in to ask him if he had time to look at it and get that screw aligned and in. He stopped what he was doing, found the same wrench in his stock, took mine apart and replaced the entire head mechanism with a new one. Checked and calibrated. No charge.

 

[Gubi]

Well, yeah, that's why you're paying $400-500 for a Snap-On clicker. Probably makes sense if you do this stuff for a living.

This is what I switched to. I got a 1/2" and a 3/8" for less than $150 each on Amazon, and they've been performing very well. They are in no way a replacement for proper technique, though.

I really like that they just use two regular AA batteries and they're easy to change. My only complaints are that the controls are a bit unintuitive and the way you set torque with the arrows is a bit annoying, but I've gotten used to it.

 

[alfasprinty]

Hi all,

I don't know whether another opinion is wanted on the torque wrenches but here it is anyway, ...and only for what it's worth of course.

I used both the bending and clicking type wrenches with lot of satisfaction over the years.

For noticing small and critical differences in the torque, in my opinion, the scale of the bending type is not so fine & visible.
Especially when working with a streched -out arm, as you have to do to get a steady pulling power from your arm, it's sometimes hard to follow the scale needle.
In that respect, I find the clicking version certainly easier to work with.

Regarding accuracy, before starting a job, I always compare the clicker type with the bending type wrench on several torques.
Therefore, I mount the head of the bending type wrench in a bench vice and connect it with the clicker type, using a fitting socket. Indeed, the graduation is easier to be read there than under the bonnet.

I was told that, for keeping the clicker wrench in good shape, it is very important to release the inside spring back to zero each time you've finished your job.
In that regard, I could understand that if you don't take care of releasing the spring when storing the instrument, this type of wrench could lose its accuracy in the long term, ... something that probably won't happen with the bending type wrench.
So finally, I use both wrenches for comparison but at the end, I do the job with the clicking type wrench.

Rgds,

Thierry

 

[DPeterson3]

Very briefly.

I find demanding and insulting posts to be contrary to the good that can and should happen within the ABB.

Secondly, I have all the of the documentation, and would actually love to publish a definitive discussion of this subject. I have made a few earlier efforts, and was eventually met by the above type attacks, so I stopped trying. Again - not really in the best interest of helping other Alfa owners to simply chase off people with some degree of expertise, and the willingness to share it.

I am within 8 days of flying back from Colombia to the US to pick up my small plane with its fresh, factory-built motor. After some testing, we will fly half-way across the US, then head south through Mexico, and Central America, then to Colombia, where I now live.

The above trip requires special insurance, decals proving payment of Customs fees, double checking a whole lot of safety equipment, plus the normally routine, but this time quite complicated flight planning.

DEMANDS that I drop all of this to repeat what has been largely published on the BB before, and (in spite of Gubi's never tripping over it) is available online to someone interested in useful knowledge of best-methods for pursuing our shared hobby.

I will sum up the subject this way....

In many (not all) cases, the problem is not the tool, it is the methodology. The higher-tension fasteners require a different methodology than simple click-types can provide.

That's all I have time for right now. Maybe a month or two from now (if I survive the over-ocean and mountain flying) I'll get the "Put down that clicker!" article put together.