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Discussion Starter #1
With due credit to Shakespeare, I face the dilemma of having to choose between cutting open and having to weld the deceptively perfect outer sills to get to the rust left behind by presvious owner, or to liberally spray-in the hidden inner sills and get as much waxoyl vapour into the crevasses as I can and pray that the decision doesn't come back to bite me in a coupe of years or so.
Recommendations (actions, procedures, materials)? IMG-20190402-WA0020.jpeg Screenshot_20190324-091435.jpeg Screenshot_20190326-124119.jpeg

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If the sills/rockets look good and car drives well just rust protect.

If rust bubbles appear in the future you will only have added some happy miles to your car, and can then buy all 3 layers and replace.

Maybe buy the replacement panels now if you have the funds and are worried that they will stop making them.

Do not take a good looking and driving Alfa off the road. Restoration costs big $'s and time ...
Pete
 

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If the sills/rockets look good and car drives well just rust protect.

If rust bubbles appear in the future you will only have added some happy miles to your car, and can then buy all 3 layers and replace.

Maybe buy the replacement panels now if you have the funds and are worried that they will stop making them.

Do not take a good looking and driving Alfa off the road. Restoration costs big $'s and time ...
Pete
I’d agree. At some point the rust will show its self on the outer sill surface, at that point I’d start replacing metal.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Appreciate the input. My biggest fear is handing over a clean good running GTV to the shop and ending up with a rusty patched-up barn find...

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in a 105 that is being driven (Regularly driven!) sheetmetal is almost a consumable, so run it until it starts getting bad. Anything can be fixed but like Pete said, you may well be looking down the barrel of a long and expensive resto job. Are you up for that or do you want to drive the car?

Oh, and do not think for one minute that a so-called "rust free" car will not have hidden horrors like the ones you may or may not have. Drive it!
 

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I'm going through what started as an outer sill replacement, and became and inner & middle sill repair and partial restoration. The more I dig the more rust I find, and I have to find it. You can't weld properly on really rusty panels.

What was a small rust spot that my friend decided to poke with a screwdriver became an infinite, never ending void of sadness and a huge money pit. I'm really glad I know how to weld.

Don't be like me, just drive the **** thing. You will know when it's time to park her, then it is on to the rotisserie.
 

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Drive the car until you're ready to leave it for a few weeks to repair the rust.

If you think that it's time on the rockers, there will also be the middle and inner rockers as well, obligatorily ...

So in the meantime, drive this great car and enjoy the beautiful roads of the country.

For example, a high rise from the Dead Sea to Mount Nebo !!! I really like to do it in Alfa. The sound... the turns of the road... :smile2:
 

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Samer, there are a number of places that typically rust on these cars. If you look through that many different GTV restoration threads, you should be able to see what I mean. The most important things is that the frame rails (or inner rockers as some call them) are structurally sound. Some folks test the structural integrity of the frame rails by taking a screw driver and trying to puncture the frame rail from under the car. The motion that is used would be much like trying to stab someone with a knife. Just saying.

Something that could help you is a cell phone endoscope. They are relatively cheap and easy to use. Amazon has a great selection of them.
 

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I'm not sure how spraying Waxoyl can come back to bite you. Best case you buy yourself a whole bunch of time. Worst case it starts to bubble anyway and then you fix it.

If you look for rust on nearly any GTV you'll find it.
 

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I'm not sure how spraying Waxoyl can come back to bite you. Best case you buy yourself a whole bunch of time. Worst case it starts to bubble anyway and then you fix it.

If you look for rust on nearly any GTV you'll find it.
My limited experience has been on the mid 80 restos if the inner sill was sound and middle sill funcky the body guys would weld the outer sills and that was it. No so now with the value of the cars. That is why I mentioned if the door seams are straight and the rocker is as the author states, (and its not a daily driver) the Waxoyl will greatly slow down any further deterioration. If he can jack the car up on all 4 jack points ,one at a time and the doors open and close the structure is sound.
 

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If you are not going to dig in there and cut and weld with new metal, at least use a rust converter chemical first before using anything like the wax based stuff. You want to convert that rusted metal to something inert before covering, otherwise you are just covering up future trouble.
 

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But Mad North-Northwest
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I wouldn't try to use chemical rust converter in an enclosed space like a sill. It's not like converting the rust adds any strength back anyway.

If you coat any rust liberally with wax that'll seal out moisture and oxygen and delay further degradation. That's the best you can hope for at this point.
 

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You know of course that oxygen and water can migrate slowly through these wax coatings, esp if not applied thoroughly. I've read that the standard practice in auto repair shops should be to first chemically convert the rust to an inert and protective coating which prevents any more corrosion in the affected surface, ie, "treat the inside of the panel and any remaining rust with rust converter". The conversion chemicals do not create noxious/hazardous odors.

Lol, wax doesn't add any strength back either.

However, use whatever makes you comfortable. Such a nice and valuable car, if it was my car...I think I would get it fixed properly from the get go.
 

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Such a nice and valuable car, if it was my car...I think I would get it fixed properly from the get go.
Hang on Del, this means that if you were to buy any second hand car your would go through a restoration process before using it!? The car in question does not have any rust showing, why go looking for it? Now if there are areas of the body already showing poor repairs, fair enough, but if it looks nice with no visible rust bubbles, etc. then why stress? You can enjoy that stress when a rust bubble finally appears ;)

My 2001 156v6 is not perfect, got a few stone chips and scratches, and has had some repainting and minor damage to a jacking point from an idiot miss-using a jack, but it is very presentable and is rattle free and drives wonderfully. I never intend to restore it, even if I won Lotto ...

I thought the motto about buying the best car you can afford was to avoid a restoration. Confused ...
Pete
 

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I assumed that he found signs of rust somewhere, as in, "to get to the rust left behind by previous owner". If not, well, yeah, drive it, but if there are any signs at all, I've always had it fixed on my cars soon, rather than wait to see if it would get worse, which it always does.

I've seen Alfas where it was let go for whatever reason, and then it became costly to finally repair, or, the car was parted, alas. I really prefer to catch it up front, at the beginning. No choice in my own book since '66, except for one car, I admit. That was the 75 Alfetta sedan, which rusted all around the engine bay and front/rear suspension under the sheet metal lapped joints, etc, before my very eyes, in only two years in Washington, DC. That car was the only Alfa I've had which did that. Had no idea it would do that (my first Alfa, the 64 Sprint GT, didn't rust except for the glass trim clips areas, in Seattle in 260k miles), and I just didn't catch the 1975 Alfetta destruction in time. The Alfas I've had since haven't rusted, except again, the 78 Alfetta sedan window trim clips, IIRC. Example, the 91 164S, DD since 1994, with 192k miles on it, has zero signs of corrosion anywhere. Superb resistance, at least in this area, lol..
 

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Discussion Starter #18
All valuable input. But since I have Alfa Romeo psychosis with (4) Alfa Romeos on my hand I'm thinking to start with the Spider which my son recently dinged and will need body work. About 5 years ago I had it repainted after spraying the wheel well and a bit of the front underbody with Liqui Molly's Zinc paint primer. Will see how those areas have held up after stripping the paint and decide accordingly.
Intellectually I am convinced that I really "should" remove the bad metal but I would much rather "hold-back / slow down" the rust bug than open up a big can of worms which can't be closed once the inner sills are stripped open...
Let you all know in a couple of weeks. Screenshot_20190403-105700.jpeg DSC_0218.jpeg

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I think you are getting confusing messages. You have to work out when it comes to fixing a 105 what are the current expectations of 105 ownership.
How about you sell the car to yourself as a thought exercise as it is now (after you view the inside of the sills with a camera). Then as a thought exercise fix it properly then asked yourself again. Your conclusion is? Fix it or not to fix it? It does not matter how long it takes (say in your lifetime). Your decision in the end, or the person you sell it to if you don't want to proceed.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I think you are getting confusing messages. You have to work out when it comes to fixing a 105 what are the current expectations of 105 ownership.
How about you sell the car to yourself as a thought exercise as it is now (after you view the inside of the sills with a camera). Then as a thought exercise fix it properly then asked yourself again. Your conclusion is? Fix it or not to fix it? It does not matter how long it takes (say in your lifetime). Your decision in the end, or the person you sell it to if you don't want to proceed.
Oyyy... You lost me right after "sell the car to yourself"

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