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I think in the day, Alfa fitted the X to the budget models, but the Cinturato was what they fitted to the more sporting models
NO no no and no again, Giulietta's got 5 of a kind, that's it, back in the day there was more than one supplier of parts, Fergat & Borrani did the wheels, at certain times one was the preferred supplier, same with tyres. Michelin X and Pirelli Cinturato were the main choices, there were others. Price, availability, supply constraints all played a factor in what was supplied at certain times.

This is the Paris Show '55 Normale on Cinturato's.... Here are two Series III Ti sedans, one on X's and one on Pirelli's, plus a '60 Series II Ti on Borrani's shod with Pirelli's's - all Factory pictures

Pronouncements such as the above without due diligence gives rise to urban myths and DIS-information which when repeated often enough become 'the truth' in people's minds. The Borrani = Veloce myth is exactly the sort of thing that has been mindlessly repeated and now Borrani's are priced way above Fergats, when the reality is that Borrani was simply the preferred or dominant supplier in '58 & early '59 when Bertone & Alfa batch built Veloce's.... early Factory pictures show Lightweights & SS's on Fergats, Sprint Normale's were regularly on Borrani's as were Ti's & Berlina's.

Agree that we are very fortunate to have the superb choice of 155 x 15 tyres available today for our cars. I've had Michelin X; XS; XAS, Pirelli's, General R280's and some rock hard Kelly tyres that came on the '60 Sprint. Currently all my running ones are on 155 Vredesteins which are fairly readily available locally and very competitively priced. The difference between new rubber and the old rubber when driving is remarkable.

Ciao
Greig
 

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Surely you wouldn't suggest that a Giulietta drives better on the Vredestein?

yep the Vredestein is cheap, but you couldn't suggest it drives as good as a current fresh rubber, production Pirelli?
 

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Surely you wouldn't suggest that a Giulietta drives better on the Vredestein?

yep the Vredestein is cheap, but you couldn't suggest it drives as good as a current fresh rubber, production Pirelli?
I wouldn't bet on labels .. The Vreds are very good tires and I wouldn't call them cheap... cheaper but not cheap. I would put them up against ANY Pirelli or Michelin..
 

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In a recent magazine article they tested a selection of Classic tyres back to back. It wasn't the CA67 that you might fit to a Giulietta it was the CN36 https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/pirelli-collezione/cinturato-cn36.html However the Pirelli won considerably. The article is at the bottom of this page https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classic-car-tyres/porsche/911.html#page=6

I couldn't bare looking at any of my cars on Vredestein. There is no doubt aesthetically they got it all wrong, but when i took the Vredestein off my aunties Spider and fitted XAS https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/michelin-classic-tyres/xas/155r15-michelin-xas-ff.html (before the Cinturato was available) The improvement was amazing.

i also have a car fitted with 155HR5 Cinturato CA67 and they are fantastic. The only reason to buy Vredestein is price.
 

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Mr. Dougal.. please with all due respect.. We do understand a teeny bit about what works. If I was in the business of selling ANYTHING I would promote the most expensive items too. Since you appear to ascribe to that theorem lets just call this discussion a draw. And the fact you represent a tire vendor would have no bias whatsoever if I understand what "we" means in your last post..
 

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My cars on Vredesteins drive very well, I do lots of mileage and am very happy with them. They replaced 20+ year old Michelins and Pirelli's and the difference in road holding, tracking & turn in was remarkable.

While Vredestein are not the prettiest of tyres, they are a modern carcass with modern rubber and will last as long as the modern Pirelli or Michelin equivalents. I equipped 3 Giulietta's with Vredesteins for the same price as a single set of Pirellis, so yes price was a factor, but so was availability.

Reading your German Porsche Report on classic tyres, the Vreds scored a very close second to the Pirelli. They suit what I want out of a tyre and are 1/4 of the Pirelli price and available off the rack at my local dealer. Not so with Pirelli & Michelin 155's

Ciao
Greig
 

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I used Pirelli CN36 175 70 VR15 tires on my 101 Sprint Veloce. I see ads for Pirelli 165 VR15 tires and would recommend them over the original Pirelli Cinturato 155 R15 tires. I used the original 4.5 x 15 steel wheels and ran my car at AROSC Time Trials in the 1970's. I finished restoring my 101 Sprint Veloce in November 2014 and put the original size Pirelli tires because the CN 36 tires were not available. I would have bought the larger tires. I even purchased the tube tires for my car.

I spent over $40K restoring my car and tires are a small part of the total. The car looks great and is driven only one special occasions and not to Costco. I restored my 1957 Spider in the 1970's and drove it for 17 years and used the same CN36 tires. The value of a 750 Spider was so low that most owners did not restore them and sent the cars to the salvage yard. I should have bought a TZ1 for $2.4K at the same time but, it was a race car not suited for street use. I do not think that anyone knew the price of cars would be that expensive as they are today. I also thought that the Bugatti Royale was the most expensive car in the world at that time but, that is not true today.
 

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I have the last registration, 1972, for my Spider before it was stored for decades. It was rescued to an Ohio barn in 2005. Just under 24K on the odometer. These are the tires that came on it. Only the spare had usable tread, but they were most certainly dry-rotted. Inside were tubes still capable of holding air. Cinturato 367s Are these original tires?

By the way, I will be buying 5 new tires soon for my naked Fergats. Summit Racing actually shows 155/55/15 Michelins in stock. A bit less than the Pirellis, but not by much. But, since they are in Summit county, 35 minutes away and will ship to me for free I am considering it. The Vreds are also available in stock near me. The proper Pirellis are either in the U.K. or Los Angeles. None close by. But, I want them for some reason. I think their cousins below, which have now gone to radial heaven, are haunting me to do the romantic factory thing.
 

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Mr. Dougal.. please with all due respect.. We do understand a teeny bit about what works. If I was in the business of selling ANYTHING I would promote the most expensive items too. Since you appear to ascribe to that theorem lets just call this discussion a draw. And the fact you represent a tire vendor would have no bias whatsoever if I understand what "we" means in your last post..
divotandtralee
do not tar me with the same brush that you would be tared by.
That might be the way you would do it. However we encourage our customers to buy the tyres that would make the cars drive at their best. regardless of cost. we beleive it is up to our customers to look after their credit card bill. but we do offer a shoulder to cry on to some of our customers who are loookin at £ 400 per tyre.
I understand how you can become so cynical. but that does not apply to us. We do have some integrity. We stand by what we recomend. It is not based on price. However there are only 2 reasons you would not fit a Cinturato, Michelin X or Michelin XAS on these cars; because you have massively modified the car for the track, or to save money. they are all easily acessible. we post them all over the world. mostly free of carriage charges. or you can buy the Cinturato from Lucas https://www.lucasclassictires.com/155HR15-PIRELLI-CINTURATO-CA67-502p.htm

Barn 101
Beware 155/55R15 is a completely differnt size to say the 155R15 Michelin X https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classic-car-tyres/alfa-romeo/giulietta/155tr15-michelin-x.html which we ship to most of the world free of carriage charges.

AlfistiSA
In the German tyre test The Pirelli thrashed all the other tyres in virtually every test. except aquaplaning which is to be expected, because a modern tread pattern should be miles better designed to move deep standing water out of the way, and the Pirelli was only slightly pipped by Vredestein. And rolling resistence, which again is something you would expect a modern tyre to excell in. However Pirelli braking in the dry scored a 1. the best possible score. as in the best modern tyre would not do better. Brakking in the wet 1- the second best possible score. knocking the 2 modern tyres Vredestein and Blockley out of the park. yep the Vredstein did better than i had expected, being better than Michelin XWX in the wet, but not in the dry But the Pirelli's scores are amazing.
 

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I hesitate to add to a discussion that may be spinning out of control, but I feel that the most important issue with tires for antique cars is being overlooked. The main hazard with tires on cars that get used as little as those on our old Alfas is that the tires will age out, and you will hesitate to change tires that were as expensive as Pirellis and Michelins.

A good discount tire is just fine on our old machines. Modern quality, not to mention regulations and liability laws in the USA, ensure that any tire that you buy from a decent tire dealer will be reliable and perform perfectly well. This is the advice that I received from a very well known figure in the world of classic cars. I noted that he followed his own advice, too, and on machines worth far more than my Giulietta Spider. Save yourself a few dollars, but be sure to change your tires after ten years.

If you don't believe this, compare your stopping distance with locked wheels on your old tires, then again on new tires. You may be shocked. But don't do this often, or the tires will get flat spots.
 

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I hesitate to add to a discussion that may be spinning out of control, but I feel that the most important issue with tires for antique cars is being overlooked. The main hazard with tires on cars that get used as little as those on our old Alfas is that the tires will age out, and you will hesitate to change tires that were as expensive as Pirellis and Michelins.
I recomend just driving them more. But i understand your sentiment. And it is fair to say, we sell more tyres to people replacing old tyres

A good discount tire.
I'm afraid this is a contradiction in terms. because these discount tyres are the wrong shape and carcass structure is built to be fitted to another type of car.

Why have you bought an Alfa?

If it is just because you like the look of the car. what the heck just get something that is black and round to keep the rims off the floor.

If it is because you like the way it drives buy a proper period tyre.

If it is a mixture of both, buy a proper period tyre.

There are cheaper classsic cars out there. yes Alfas look great. but the real deal is they handle brilliantly, why compromise that for a few quid
 

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You’re battling a cultural fixture, Dougal.

While I’ve seen the “always buy the cheapest” mentality most often in other countries, a significant share in America are hard-wired in this manner. You and I might disagree, but it is something taught to them in the crib, and so not likely to change.

Stir in a large dose of our self-proclaimed “yankee ingenuity”, and you see a lot of cars that are bound to be inferior to their original state, but their owners are happy and had fun getting there.

Trying to convince them that they are wrong will generally result in an invitation to perform an act that is contortionally unlikely, and certain to be unpleasant.

We hold similar dubious views of elements of English culture, but there’s really no merit in pointing them out to you.

I recently helped a neighbor get a series 2 Spider back on the road. Ancient tires, and I recommend CN36s. He was shocked by the price, and found some 185/70s for $46/tire.

He and his wife are around 70, and will drive the car slowly around town, with the top down, on warm sunny days. They’ll be safe and happy.
 

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I fully understand this.

I am not trying to convince people that you get what you pay for. i am simply pointing out a fact that a cheap tyre is not as good as a top quality one.

i fully understand that some people want to pootle round slowly. Some don't care that the handling isn't as good. like i said in my earlier coment " Why have you bought an Alfa?

If it is just because you like the look of the car. what the heck just get something that is black and round to keep the rims off the floor." But it isn't correct to give t he impression that you don't get what you pay for. It is fair to say that you dont want the extra bennefits that are available from a better tyre. That is reasonable.

However when i come accross statements along the lines of:

"i put some modern 195/65R15 tyres on instead of 165R14 and the ride is softer and the steering is still progressive and its not heavier"

I will step in and correct it.

because:
side wall height is the main contributer to comfort and bump absorbtion of a tyre.
carcass structure and tread width determin how progressive the handling is.
footprint width also determins how heavy the steering is.
 
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