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Discussion Starter #1
I have recently re done my suspension, sport springs etc. I have the beautiful Alfaholics GTA style rims, (15"). In the correct offset. My question is what size performance tires will fit?
Thank you.
 

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Super? Berlina? I have run 195/60-14 track tires on a Super, proper offset, no rubbing. I've had 205/60-14 on the back of a Berlina, don't know if that'd work on a Super.
Andrew
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Sorry , a Giulia 1300 Ti.
Alfaholics run 195/55/15 but that looks like too tight a fit for the street. (At least the crappy bumpy ones by me). I'm wondering about 185/60/15 but not much available that's grippy. I am almost done installing an Alfaholics fast road kit stage II. I have the simple one in my Spider and love it.
 

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I guess that's the 6J wheel, what's the offset? You should be able to run 185/65-15
 

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Willtheyfit.com is a website which shows you comparative measurements for different tyre sizes and wheel offsets. It will tell you how much taller/shorter and further inwards or outwards a wheel/tyre will sit compared with your current items.
Actual tyre size/shape can vary a little across manufacturers, of course, despite nominally being the same size.
A look (and measure) under the wheel arches should give you an idea of how much room you have to play with.

However, why not trust Alfaholics advice - they aren't going to recommend something which won't fit, particularly with their own springs. You could flick them an email...
From their pictures, it looks like their off-the-shelf tyres in that 195/55-15 size are Potenzas.
 

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My experience is this: With a "Granny" overload spring fitted (raising the rear ride-height appx: 1 inch) the 15x6x29.5 Superlite wheels fitted with 185x65x15 Kuhmo tires didn't rub the inner wheel well on my Super. When I removed the Granny spring, dropping the rear a bit, I now get occasional slight rubbing under loaded, hard corning but none in normal driving. Inspection shows that the rubbing isn't coming from the fender lip but is happening further up in the wheel well. It's really tight in there.

/I think it's important to note that my appx 130k Super's rear suspension, while not showing outward signs of wear, is still riding on old bushings which I suspect are allowing enough lateral axle movement to cause the 185 tire to lightly contact the inner fender. I plan to fit a 4.56 w/ limited slip in the near future along with new bushings which I suspect will correct the problem. I should also note that my Super is riding on stock springs and has a stock ride height.

Lowering the suspension. I'd initially planned on lowering the ride height using stiffer springs. After fitting Koni yellow sport setting shocks I am now so satisfied with the way my Super handles that I've decided to keep the stock suspension. The only changes I'll make will be to slightly lower the front (to better fill the wheel opening) using spacers between the spring pans and fitting a stiffer 1 1/16 in front swaybar. I want to see how that works and whether or not I like it before I move on to more suspension mods.

That said, I think using stiffer springs, however, may prove to be a more effective way of stopping inner wheel well rubbing. The stock rear suspension is quite soft, allowing quite a lot of body movement. I found that fitting the stiffer Konis produced an observable reduction in rubbing so installing uprated rear springs, despite being lower, might very well reduce body movement enough to eliminate rubbing on a rear suspension with new bushings.

As others have noted, the basic problem with fitting larger cross section tires to a Super or TI is we are working with an overall design that was intended for a 155x15 tire size or, later, a 165x14 tire size. Anything larger than that moves us outside the oem envelope and requires various fixes and compromises in order to work. Fortunately we are amassing a reasonably good knowledge base about what works and what doesn't.

What these collected experiences tell us is that there can be surprising variance in the rear dimensions of Supers and TI. Sometimes a given wheel/tire combination works on one car but not on another even when the same mods are in place. In any event, it's real tight back there. My friend BruceAlfanuts Super is running Heinbrand 15x6x38 wheels, 185x65x15 tires on a lowered suspension and doesn't get any rubbing.

What I take from this is that to really get a larger wheel/tire combination to work on a Super you need to give wheel offset some careful consideration. The larger offset provided by the 38mm instead of 29mm gives just enough room for everything to clear. (Checking the Alfaholics site, I notice that they are offering their 15x6 GTA style wheel in a 35mm offset.) I will also note that the TI Super/TZ replica 15x5.5x36 wheels sold by Classic Alfa will fit a Super or TI with much reduced chance of rubbing. (The 5.5 width is also appropriate for a 185x65 or 175x70x15 tire.) I chose the GTA style wheels over the TI Super style wheels because I liked the looks. Since I'm dealing with minor rubbing issues and Bruce's green Super isn't, perhaps I should have given the plainer looking TI Super wheels more thought . . . :)

I shouldn't conclude this post without some comments about using 14in wheels. Many people (including me) chose to purchase 15in wheels because there is a wider variety of suitable tires available (my H rated Kuhmos cost about $56 ea.) While suitable 14in tires are harder to find, there are a few good possibilities out there and running 14in wheels, for instance, on H rated 165 Vredesteins or 185x70x14 H rated Avons (quite expensive but very good tires) will give you a great combination. The Super pictured below is running AH's 14x6 GTA style wheels w/ 165 Vreds on a much lowered AH fast road suspension. I think it looks pretty doggone good.

https://www.alfaholics.com/gallery/road-cars/

Now then, what tires to use? Please keep in mind that there are my opinions based on my experiences. As we've discussed, your experience with your Super or TI may differ. When choosing tires, don't just take my recommendation as gospel---ask your own questions, do your own investigations. And keep in mind that Supers and TIs are sometimes surprisingly different: what works on one may not work on another. Or, as I have seen, may require some adjustment. To repeat my mantra for this post, it's real tight back there. Please note Daron's comments in the following video:


Alfaholics recommends a 195x55x15 tire for their 15x7x29 or 35mm GTA style wheels. Max and the AH guys are all straight shooters and I know from dealing with them that their stuff works. So, if they say this combination works, that's good enough for me. Likewise, Andrew has a lot of experience racing Supers, so if he says a 195 will fit, that's also good enough for me.

Personally, I chose to use 185x65x15 H (note: appx an inch lower than a 185x65x15) rated tires because I didn't want to deal with the increased steering effort of wider tires. I've run on 195 cross section tires and felt that my Alfa's driving dynamics lost something with the wider tires. Moving from 165x14 Vreds to the 185x65 Kuhmos has not greatly increased my steering effort so that size works for me. But, there's another choice that I should have considered. Our friend Bob/Subtle put 175x65x15 Vreds (correction I initially listed 70 series) on his Super and very much liked the way they worked. So, a 175x70x15 is also most likely a great choice for a car mainly driven on the street. As for 14in wheel and tire combinations. My Super came with 165x14 H rated Vreds. They were in all respects excellent tires and, had I made that choice would have worked quite well with 14x6 GTA style wheels. Likewise, our friend Ulrich/Alleggritta won his class in the '08 Carrera running on 14in GTA with 185x70x14 Avon CRZ66 H rated rally tires. (Avons tend to be pretty expensive here in the States so Dougal at Longstone tyres in the UK may be able to give you a better deal.)
 

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I've been happy with 15 x 6 GTA replica wheels and 175/65-15 Michelin Pilot Sport A/S3 tire on my lowered Super. This is a great tire, I'm not overly concerned with the grip (which is amazing) but I wanted a tire with good road feel and these are perfect!

IMHO a 15 x 7 is a really hard fit in the back. I know people have done it; looking at my car I don't know how.
 

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I've been happy with 15 x 6 GTA replica wheels and 175/65-15 Michelin Pilot Sport A/S3 tire on my lowered Super. This is a great tire, I'm not overly concerned with the grip (which is amazing) but I wanted a tire with good road feel and these are perfect!


Yep. That 10mm difference can easily mean you don't have to work so hard to get everything to work the way it should.
 

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I run Heinbrand 5.5x15 TZ replica wheels (ET38 I recall??) with 185's and there has never been any rubbing. FIlls out the wheel well well. About a hand's thickness of clearance (to the knuckles). This wheel might work with a 195. The Classic Alfa TZ wheels also work.
 

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Offsets. with my 15x6x29.5 GTA style wheels my 185x65x15 are close, but not fatally so, to the rear fender lip. While there's no rubbing there (I get contact under load at the upper part of the fender) the tire/fender-lip distance is about an index finger width which is pretty close. A 195 width tire (see Daron's video where he talks about machining the break hub to get more offset) will obviously cause problems. It's equally obvious that a wheel and tire choice will benefit from greater offsets---38mm would be about right with 30mm being the absolute outside limit---because this would move the tire away from the upper fender (where rubbing often occurs) and more toward to inside of the rear wheel housing where there's more room.

To reiterate: TI's and Supers were originally designed to run with much smaller cross-section tires and narrower wheels. This is more problematical for TI's and Supers because of the narrowness of the rear wheel housing. If you plan on lowering your car and fitting larger cross-section tires, this potential problem becomes even more acute because you are bringing the fender even closer to the wider tire (recall, that I had absolutely no rubbing when my Super was fitted with it's "Granny" overload spring which raised the rear ride height). That said putting stiffer, lower springs with stiffer shocks will definitely limit body motion and this, of course, may keep the tire out of contact with the fender. There are a lot of variables in play here. That's why it's important to pay attention to the recommendations of trustworthy vendors who have actually tested and developed their products on real cars and on the practical experiences of enthuiasts. One of life's more miserable experiences is buying tires and wheels that don't fit your car. To repeat my mantra: it's real tight back there.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thank you everyone for the input. I have talked with Alfaholics as it is their suspension package and their wheels. They had said, (and they are incredibly helpful and nice btw) that a 195/55/15 will fit dependent on the manufacturer as all tire brands are somewhat different. I am going to get two tires I have, (from a previous car) and see.
It does look like a really tight fit but with a new and tight suspension, (springs, rose/ball jointed trunion bar etc.) I will trust it will work.

....or not, stay tuned.

Thank you!
 

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Alfa did offer a 15x6" wheel (with tang) as an option for these cars. 105.02.28.010.00 optional on Ti, Ti Super, Super. beyond that, i have no clue. if anyone has any info on offset for that wheel, would appreciate it. no clue if the offset would be useful w wider modern tires - but good info nonetheless. my super is lowered (street height, but low) & stiffened springs w watts link. rear wheel arches are stock. track wheels 15x7x27mmm? not sure re offset - been a while since i checked, but think in that region. 205/50/15 tires (smallest 15" track tires can buy) fit - barely. not many performance tires actually measure what the nominal size would lead you to believe. i spent some time checking tire dimensions before made the choice. made choice less on actual tire performance - more on narrowest section width. on passenger side fits pretty well - clears wheel arch lip fine. on DS - some slight rubbage on outside sidewall/shoulder under severe compression. worst thing, the ffffing limit strap perch rubs on wheel rim under hard cornering. the rear wheel arch is narrow enough and then they put the limit strap mounts INSIDE the wheel arch making a bad situation worse. planning on taking those out this summer - irrc, will give back almost an inch inside the arch. should be able to come up w an offset that will work well.
btw, the discrepancy in right/left fit was there w the trunnion in place. no clue which side is wrong - but i suspect the PS.
 

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I've got the original 15" steel wheels, , on my 67 Giulia Super, Its lowered, Centerline Springs and I'm running 185/55/15 Toyo Proxies,no rubbing, good tire so far, car handles like a go cart with them, much better than the Sumitomo's. Hope that helps.
 

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Alfa did offer a 15x6" wheel (with tang) as an option for these cars. 105.02.28.010.00 optional on Ti, Ti Super, Super. beyond that, i have no clue. if anyone has any info on offset for that wheel, would appreciate it.
Generally speaking, Alfa's preferred oem wheel offset was always greater than 30mm. The Ti Super Campgnolos were, I am told, about 38mm which is what the 15x5.5 replicas sold by Classic Alfa are (that is also, again I'm told) what the 15x6 Japanese Autoparco replicas are. That would make sense because the Alfa engineers would have been aware of the rear rubbing problem and would have compensated for it by moving the wheel center inboard as much a possible. It's axiomatic that, with that much offset, you'll have less rubbing problems than with wheels with 30mm or the 28.9 mm offsets of the GTA 15x6 replicas I'm running on my Super. With this in mind, it's no wonder the stock seel wheels with substantial offsets and 5in rim widths work so well. They were designed for the cars!

As I mentioned in my earlier posts, something to consider is the health of your suspension bushings. While my Super doesn't exhibit any pronounced worn-suspension wobble, the rear suspension bushings are nonetheless worn just enough to cause enough lateral movement of the axle to cause some rubbing under load.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Yes, Very Interesting!
I didn't know a 185 tire would fit on a 7" rim. I guess hard but doable.
My other question is: Are these Pirelli's New modern tires with modern construction and compounds or are they just replica's of the old tires using the same compounds and construction as the old tires? I ask because I am assuming that tire compounds and construction has moved on and advanced since they were making those old Pirelli's. Or am I wrong on that front?
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Yes, Very Interesting!
I didn't know a 185 tire would fit on a 7" rim. I guess hard but doable.
As is often the case, not recommended by the manufacturer, but you can get away with it.

Ferrari have been doing this since the Ferrari Daytona | Longstone Tyres , fitting tyres on to https://www.borrani.com/ferrari-wheels/365-gtb-4-daytona.html wheels that are far wider than the tyre manufacturer would recomend. When rim recomendations are specified for a tyre they are intended to have plenty of tyre overhanging the rim to protect the wheel from the curb.

Over wide wheels will make the steering heavier, increase tracking, slow down the turn in. and diminish the comfort. pretty much the same issues you get from fitting wider tyres.

However they do increase the stability of the tyre, so good for the track, and if you hit a curb on the track you are doing something wrong.

Stretching your tyres is currently very trendy. This web site is fun. https://tyrestretch.com/

My other question is: Are these Pirelli's New modern tires with modern construction and compounds or are they just replica's of the old tires using the same compounds and construction as the old tires? I ask because I am assuming that tire compounds and construction has moved on and advanced since they were making those old Pirelli's. Or am I wrong on that front?
Thank you
Yep good one.

mostly right.

Modern quality control techniques of manufacturers such as Pirelli and Michelin are miles better than they were in the '70s. Michelin and Pirelli were, and are, better than most other companies which is why they were the tyre of preference then as they are now. There quality control has just got better and better, so you do not get the odd faulty tyre with Michelin and Pirelli. Those blown out tyres you see on the motorway are not Michelin or Pirelli (unless someone didn't check the wear or pressure of their tyre). These current productions of PIRELLI CINTURATO ™ | Longstone Tyres and Michelin XAS | Longstone Tyres benefit from top notch quality control, that you don't get from a lesser brand.

We are no longer allowed to use the same materials that were used in the '70s, 80s or '90s for that matter. so they are made using modern materials.

The compounds are also new, and again these are made by the worlds best tyre manufacturers, so they are excellent. probably the biggest improvement for the driver is the way they move water out the way. so better grip from a small foot print.

It is important to distinguish the difference between grip and handling!

The big advantage with a Michelin XAS or a Pirelli Cinturato is that they have a carcass that is designed to suit these cars, yes; made out of modern materials, and made with modern machinery, with massively improved quality control, but the carcass that presents your small, yet extra grippy contact patch to the road, suits the geometry of your car, and will maintain the progressive handling, yet, they will hang on a little more than they did in period and stop you in the wet.

Where as a more modern squarer tyre lifts the inside edge then lets go.
 
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