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Discussion Starter #1
My L has about 178,000 miles on it. The clutch and TO bearing were changed about 32,000 miles (6 years) ago when I got the car

I’m having definite noise from the TO bearing, which is a little disappointing at that mileage.

Yesterday the problem got worse at highway speed after I couldn’t get the car in gear after a downshift. I was able to coast to an exit ramp. I still couldn’t get into any gear while idling. After shutting down and restarting, I was able to get into gear and drive home with no trouble.

When fully in gear at low speed (first and second gear typically), I’m hearing some clicking noise at light acceleration and deceleration. Sounds like gearbox and not CV joint related.

Any thoughts if this is more than just the TO bearing?

Trying to figure out if there is anything external I can troubleshoot or evaluate before taking it in to a mechanic. If this is looking like both gearbox and clutch/TO bearing work, this car may go on the market as is for parts.
 

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John,

It's not impossible to disconnect the gearbox and change the clutch yourself. I did it, and although it took me a while, I did get it done in my shed without mishap. My car had about 320K miles then. I even made a couple of guide pins to help slide it back in place - if you need to borrow them, Holler!

You may recall a lady who did one in her front yard, on the ground, not all that long ago. She has my admiration!!

Good luck. Dennis.
 

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Sorry to hear of these troubles. Would be a real shame to see such a nice example parted out, as there are many used transmissions available, if that is a problem, although my personal opinion is that there is probably some sort of clutch actuation problem. Have to admit, don't exactly know just how just a noisy throwout bearing would cause shifting problems in general. Possibly a clutch disc failure of some kind?

Have you checked the action of the clutch slave cylinder and it's hose condition (had to replace all that in our LS, slave leaking internally, hose and fluid cruddy, all causing shifting problems)? And also check the tightness of the shift linkage atop the transmission (probably long shot)?

There is the other long shot of something inside the transmission loosening up, causing fork misalignment or errant movement, but my feeling is that it would not be just intermittent in function (you mentioned that after restarting the car, all was well again?).

I'm still thinking clutch/master problems of one kind or another.
 

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Has your L tranny input shaft ball bearing ever been upgraded to the overload roller bearing found in the S tranny's? I suspect that clicking noise could be a failed ball bearing separator cage that has failed. You can ask me how I know that noise. I got it at 130k on my 164B Originale. We bought a 92 164L with not salvageable tranny because a PO lawyer may have known law but did know to stop driving and clicking balls went into lost balls and busted 1-2 gear teeth.

If so do not pass go and prepare to spend over $200.

As for throw out bearing did you change clutch assembly or was it done before you got car?

I have spare new 164L TO bearings and may have a spare 164S input shaft roller bearing and new slide sleeve it rides on for front of tranny.

Chassy and I have both disassembled trannys and have posted DYI photo threads on the process.

Have post as 164L clutch change thread, too.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
It’s more an issue of having the time to deal with it. It can sit for a year (or more) like my Ford has been, which I would prefer not to do.

If service at a shop seems like it’s going to exceed the value of the car, it may be time to draw the line. The car cleans up ok, but it certainly has some issues.

Clutch slave and hose were done a couple years ago. I haven’t looked at the other components, but did bleed it recently. Not losing any fluid and the bled fluid wasn’t nasty looking like when the hose at the slave was going bad.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Steve, the clutch and TO were changed when I got the car. PO brought it to his mechanic, as the car had been parked for about 6 months due to old TO bearing going bad. PO had it for 10 years and about 70,000 miles before parking it. Car was in the family.

My guess is it has old ball bearing type. We didn’t instruct the mechanic to touch that, and PO never dealt with it. I didn’t learn about that bearing until owning the car for a bit.
 

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Alas, I suspect Steve may be correct.
 

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I have a supposedly rebuilt 164L tranny I bought years ago that does have the overload roller bearing in it. I saved it in my move to FL and brought it with me along with a spare S not rebuilt tranny I bought both from same shop in Richmond VA that closed years ago.

I will get the L one out of hiding and check it over if you are are interested.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Just resurrecting this thread from several months ago when I started to have some transmission problems. Hope you’re all healthy out there and are enjoying leisurely auto forum browsing!

After some test driving and fiddling a couple months ago, it seemed like part of the problem could have been in the hydraulics, so I finally got around to changing the clutch master and all the rubber hoses. Slave and hose were done a couple years ago.

I’ve had some challenge bleeding it, but managed about .6” movement on the arm as of last night. I read in the manual that .6” to .7” was the spec. Pedal feels good to me.

This was after finding the slave rod was just starting to wear through the back of the arm. I assumed that wasn’t right and managed to make an insert that I cut off of the piston from the old master cylinder. It seems like it locked in there well enough.

Anyway it’s all good enough for testing at least, and while idling I can’t get it into gear. Don’t know how much more movement I can get with more bleeding to allow it to disengage, but I’ll work at it tonight.

Any other thoughts on what could be happening to prevent disengaging? From the earlier posts I noted there is TO bearing noise (quick squeal when pressed), but I would think even a noisy bearing would disengage with proper throw. I also had concern of input shaft bearing from some clicking, but after testing a couple months ago I couldn’t repeat that, so I want to say for now it’s not part of the immediate issue. Based on the way it behaved when last on the road, I’m surprised it’s not at least mobile after the cylinder swap.
25C72A3A-77ED-479D-A829-BBCDA0DC0B88.jpeg
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You got another pedal pusher so you can see how far the pedal is pushed before the slave piston starts to move? You don't have cracked lever arm portion on top of pedal do you? Can you put tranny in gear, push pedal to floor and start engine without car moving?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
When my pedal pusher pushed a few hours ago, it seemed like about 2” of pedal movement before the arm moved. I’m solo now after more bleeding and I hear contact after about an inch of pedal movement. Seems like endless bleeding, but I’ll keep at it.

No signs of cracked lever arm.

I tried tranny in gear last night and it moves when cranking.

I’m going to keep up the bleeding.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Forgot to note, after a fair amount of bleeding I still only measured .6” of movement on the arm. Seems weird, but I’ll keep at it and update tomorrow.
5DBDFF5E-8379-4491-95CD-93DE9399A9CF.jpeg
 

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Keep brake reservoir full as clutch fluid supply port is higher than brake supply ports. I have had to remove and elevate slave on stretched hose to get air out. Working solo I have even popped out piston, held up right, filled up slave with fluid, pushed in piston and compressed spring, with plunger and rubber boot.to get air out.
 

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Did you verify that lever arm on top of clutch pedal going to clutch master cylinder is not cracked?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I don’t see anything wrong at the lever and pedal. I can mess around with more bleeding this week. Can’t seem to get more than that .6” of movement. Car still starts to move when cranked in gear.
 

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Worst case you have failed TO bearing or fingers on clutch pressure plate. If you remove slave how much throw out bearing lever play do you have? shouldn't be much.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Please clarify for me the direction. Play pushing the lever toward the engine as the slave does, or pulling the lever the opposite way?

As it stands now, it needs the force of the piston to push towards the engine. I don’t think there is play there, but I will check. I am able to pull that lever back though.

So far I’ve only messed with a TO bearing in a Ford T5, which seems simpler than this arrangement.
 

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Your 164BL has a push to release clutch pressure plate. So slave cylinder piston pushes lever and TO Bearing against pressure plate spring loaded fingers to release . Most clutches work that way.

Now both the 164S and Milano have the TO brg locked into inverted pressure plated fingers so it is a pull TO brg to release.

My clutch change I did on a 93L in 2010:
#9 Feb 12, 2010 (Edited)

Here are some pictures of failed throw out bearing and clutch replacement, etc I did on Rosso my 93L I bought from a friend years ago with a blown TO brg so don't wait this long:

Replacing Throw Out Bearing and sleeve on 164 5-speed

Replacing 164 Rear Main seal, Flywheel and Clutch
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thanks Steve.

I must have read more about the S in passing. If I read correctly, is it also the S that requires the TO bearing to be levered into place?
 
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