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Discussion Starter #1
I've been thinking of selling my E30 M3 and using a portion of the proceeds for a Giulia project. The plan was to import something ratty but running from Europe (which is looking even better now that the Euro is down) but CA's newly-enforced ancient smog regulations seem to have made this difficult-to-impossible unless I jump through out-of-state loops.

I've been looking at this one at Beverly Hills Car Club (nowhere near Beverly Hills :)) for a while and it seemingly hasn't stirred much interest, having popped up once in the "Giulias For Sale" thread above without comment.

So, is this a horrible buy? Am I asking for trouble (read: lots of tears and an empty wallet) with this thing?

1970 Alfa Romeo Guilia 1300TI





It's apparently not running (they usually have that in the description if the car runs) and clearly suffers from rust, although the floors seem fine.

The carbs don't seem to be standard 1300TI to me (though I admit that I know very little about Giulias aside from what I've read online, so who knows):



So, horrible buy or something to consider?
 

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The carbs don't seem to be standard 1300TI to me...
Those are Dellortos. Most Alfas came with Webers from the factory, though some may have shipped with Dellortos.

Frankly, for $5,950 that 1300 Giulia TI doesn't look bad. Giulia Super and TI prices have escalated recently and $6K for a complete car isn't horrible.. if the rust isn't too bad, which is hard to assess from the photos.

A lot depends on what you plan on doing with it. If you want to end up with a concours car, plan on putting about 8 times the selling price into it. If you just want to get the engine running and use it in local club events, it could be the basis for a fun project (if the rust isn't too bad).

Money spent on a ppi will probably pay off.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
A lot depends on what you plan on doing with it. If you want to end up with a concours car, plan on putting about 8 times the selling price into it. If you just want to get the engine running and use it in local club events and if the rust isn't too bad, it could be the basis for a fun project. Money spent on a ppi will probably pay off.
Nothing more than a fun weekend driver/canyon carver and definitely not a concours car. The rust is what concerns me the most (as well as what seems to be a non-running engine).

Looks like the door and chin aren't doing too well...






I'll probably go down there in person over the weekend to check it out. Are reproduction parts available for doors, chin/valence and the rear quarter area?
 

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A few points:

BHCC has had it for at least 18 months, perhaps 24 months, and at $5950 it hasn't sold. That should tell you something about the condition.

I looked at it Jan 2014 in person. Some seriously complex rusty places to fix. It's also a hideous color, and a 1300 TI originally. So it's kind of the lowest level of Giulia.

It's been on Ebay 3-4 times, maybe more, hasn't sold yet. I'm amazed BHCC hasn't reduced the price. They usually get realistic at some point. It recently got bid to low $5000s, I couldn't believe they didn't cut a deal at that. I see it as maybe a $3500 car, but jeez there is a ton of stuff to do. Basically you'd be starting from scratch, whether as a street or race car. A good 1300 TI in the US is a $15-18K car, you couldn't fix this one for that.

Andrew
 

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Discussion Starter #5
A few points:

BHCC has had it for at least 18 months, perhaps 24 months, and at $5950 it hasn't sold. That should tell you something about the condition.

I looked at it Jan 2014 in person. Some seriously complex rusty places to fix. It's also a hideous color, and a 1300 TI originally. So it's kind of the lowest level of Giulia.

It's been on Ebay 3-4 times, maybe more, hasn't sold yet. I'm amazed BHCC hasn't reduced the price. They usually get realistic at some point. It recently got bid to low $5000s, I couldn't believe they didn't cut a deal at that. I see it as maybe a $3500 car, but jeez there is a ton of stuff to do. Basically you'd be starting from scratch, whether as a street or race car. A good 1300 TI in the US is a $15-18K car, you couldn't fix this one for that.

Andrew
Is there any hidden rust not shown in the pics (suspension pick up points, etc.)? What areas are you referencing as "seriously complex," the rear door/arch area?

I see now that arch panels are available, but don't know if they cover the area where the rust is showing:

 

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Keep in mind that you may not be able to register a non-California US car even if you found one. From a distance, this doesn't look like something that can't be fixed---in rust belt areas here in the States and in the UK, for instance, they'd certainly fix one of these. But, as Andrew says, the car has serious rust issues . . . It's hard to put a price tag on that kind of work, but I'd guess you should think in terms of $20k minimum and several years of effort to get this car right. Admittedly, that's discouraging.

It appears that CARB is intentionally interpreting its provision in a way that makes all outlier cars illegal, despite the qualifying language about classic cars. That's something that really ought to be clarified. If I lived in Califa and was going to import a car, that's the first step I'd take. I'll bet there's additional qualifying language in the regs that isn't being made available. Bureaucrats don't like loose ends, so somewhere in the vast reaches of CARB's documents there's a definition of what constitutes a "classic".

You might try contacting a California Car Dealer's association for help. They'll have a vested interest in deciphering the CARB rules. Just a thought.
 

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I think since BHCC is a dealer they give you title and plates. Not certain, but that's the case with the dealers I do know, regardless of what the underyling car is.

A pillars were rusty, rockers, and the dogleg/rear doorjamb area. I didn't look underneath, it was in a dark warehouse packed next to other cars. I would not consider buying it without seeing it in person.

Andrew
 

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I would not consider buying it without seeing it in person.

Or, better still, have someone who restores old Alfas (or Italian cars) do a quick survey of what the car will need. That would be money well spent. One thing I hate to see is people romancing themselves into buying cars that have far more problems than they imagined. At the very least go look at the car yourself, have someone with Alfa expertise look at it for you, and/or then call an expert to help you interpret what you are looking at. The more information you can get about what a car needs, the better off you'll be.

I once looked at a GTV that was advertised as being "in good shape". When I saw the car, it was a rolling wreck: hit on all four corners and badly repaired, thick bondo hiding rust, etc. It had been hit in the back and drove sideways. (!) When I pointed this out to the owner, he was insulted. Go figure.
 

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If you haven't been to BHCC, it's tough to envision. They have a "showroom" in one building with the featured/nicer cars. Then a giant warehouse around the corner where the lesser cars, hundreds of them, are literally packed in like sardines in rows, many moved around by a forklift. It can be tough to get a good look at something. I would think if you're serious they would move the car out for you.

It's just east of downtown LA, by the RR tracks, an old industrial area; it's not in Bev Hills. It was fascinating to look around for a couple hours. Cars came and went constantly, the phones rang, Europeans poked around looking for deals, the volume of action is remarkable.

Andrew
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I'll definitely try to stop by this weekend (or maybe even Friday during lunch, as I work downtown) and see what this thing looks like in person. I've been meaning to stop by there just to see the inventory in person after looking at it online for a couple of years but just never made it over there.
 

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Be sure and get it up in the air (they use a forklift???) so you can check the underside of the car. That will reveal a lot and maybe make or break the deal. This car's been around for awhile so don't be afraid to low-ball a price offer. They might just take it. Besides nobody ever died from being told no . . .

BTW: Andrew says someone in SF has just imported several Supers/TI's to sell. Apparently they're titled so it might be a good idea to check them out.

Keep us posted.
 

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From what Andrew says and the photos, this looks like a project that you will end-up even or upside down on. If you want a project and ending up upside down and costing more than a good driver, that is fine. Many have landed on this shoal here. Sometimes it's about the journey (resto) and not just the destination (driving). IMO you could buy a good driver locally and end up using the car right now. IOW. You can spend $22k over the next 3 years $2000 at a time or just spend $22,000 now.

PS: The situation on importing "gray market" cars to California must be disconcerting to folks. Perhaps tirefriar can get it TTL's for you as he says it is possible. The words say otherwise but dealers seem to be finding a way around it. Strange.

PSS: if the structure is good, you can buy door skins but they are not easy to put on.
 

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I mentioned the warehouse full of Giulias here a couple months ago when they came in. They seemed to have no worries about titles. Two were 1300 Supers, one a 1600 Super, two 1300 TIs, a 1600 GT Jr, Giulietta TI, others. Most are models never sold in the US.

Andrew
 

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On the bevy of imported Euro cars, Giulia prices have risen a bit in the past year and good drivers are now easily in the Euro 10-13k range, some more if fettled with a 2L. Of course S1 Supers in good condition are way above this. Mostly 1300's available now, about 80% by my last survey. But some lesser cars (or very well bought) are down around Euro 8000-10,000 also. These cars were bought before the Euro dropped to 1.05-1.10 (1.08 today) and have a bit more invested. Shipping by RoRo can be $2500 to west coast. Add Customs and misc fees and the total for a Euro 12,000 car can be upwards of $ 18,000. At ~$22k there is a bit of P&O well deserved for the efforts. But the water is murky at best in import to CA so this is dodgey. Until the uncertainty of TTL on gray market cars for individuals is sorted, I'd tend to stick with local TTL'd cars. Good luck in your deliberations.
 

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Like all who have commented on this 1300 Ti and as an owner myself of both a 1300Ti and a Super (project car), I would generally agree re the need to be very cautious with this car. At a distance and from the outside pictures it looks to be in generally reasonable condition, straight and ok paint), barring the obvious rust issues. All which can be solved but will cost $$.

Ditto the interior will need work (dash and seats) but that is no biggie in itself. The steering wheel is incorrect for the model (though perhaps correct for a US version ?).

Who knows what the mechanicals are like (engine, gearbox, brakes, and suspension), let alone exhaust but work on the principle that all likely will need to have $ spent on them. The $ add up quickly, I know from first hand experience with my cars.

However, the real key to this car I think is, aside the obvious things, you need to check out what it is like underneath. From looking closely at the pictures from underneath, while externally the cills look to be ok, they look extremely ropey from underneath. If so, a lot of cutting and welding in new inner cills etc is likely to be required. So look everywhere underneath for rust.

Regarding the price, my view and its from Oz, is that given its past selling history and general condition it is likely to be overpriced. I paid $6.5K for my 1300Ti about a 1 1/2 years ago and its condition both externally and internally is definitely better than this car (and yes my car does have some rust). Mechanically mine also is not too bad (suspension aside which is going to be completely rebuilt).

See my two Gulias (red one is a Ti although looks externally like a Super, while the project car when I bought it was a complete rust bucket - its cost a lot to get it just to this stage re rust removal-new metal, parts and a gearbox rebuild.)

Good luck, you might in the end be better off chasing up one of the other cars that Andrew made comment on.
 

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