[cdatte]

Looking to pick up a 750D vin 1495*01174
All apart of course, the engine head was removed and sat for 40+ yrs. The pistons are frozen in the block, cams are rusty, head has a telltale line of epoxy between cyl heads. working in the 9k ish range. I'm thinking that will have to re sleeve the cyls as the tops are corroded. Or diff engine = no matching numbers
Thoughts ?

 

[Gordon Raymond]

This car has an original 750 PF steel hardtop. A difficult and expensive option to locate. I can guess you are not up on Alfa engine building. Liners are easily replaced, and there are several shops that even manufacture custom new spun-cast liners in the US. Not inexpensive, but very high quality. You will need to budget a considerable amount for a full restoration with a high end shop, as these are no longer cars one can bondo together, and drive.

 

[DaveB]

The engine is the easiest part of the car to obtain parts for, virtually everything in the block can be found, all the parts interchange with giulietta motors up to 1959 or so.
Still has a correct tunnel case trans in it, Which is a very good sign of originality.
Matching number 56 spider, I would have already bought it if I were you. DB

 

[Gordon Raymond]

I'm with Dave on this one. Dave knows 750's much better than I. A car worth a save.

 

[cdatte]

thanks guys, you convinced me.

not particular on alfa engines per say, have 13 cars of different types, one being a 73 2000 spider I finished a few months ago

going over this weekend to see if I can work a "deal" and go through all the boxes of parts.

will get back.

 

[Gordon Raymond]

Excellent plan. 750's with 101 or 105 engines are common, and superb drivers. Many 750 owners I know, run 101 1600's or 105 1300 /1600's, and save the restored or not restored original engine for sale WITH the car when they have finished the designated "caretaker" stint. Thus the "originality" of the car is preserved for the collector, but the car can be used as a driver with a less costly or valuable engine.

 

[kuni123456]

I am restoring a 1956 Spider that does not have matching engine, but have located a 1956 block. The car has a 750 engine from a later year. I think that the most expensive part of a restoration is body and paint because of rust damage. I restored a 1957 Spider with matching body and engine and drove it for 17 years, but I would probably not drive that car today because of the high value and high cost of insurance.

 

[330.gtc]

What is the purpose of owning a neat car and not enjoying the pleasure of driving it?

 

[kuni123456]

I used the car as a daily driver, but I would probably not use it now due to the fact that it is rather expensive to repair and maintain today. I have finished a complete restoration of my 1961 Sprint Veloce and will only use the car on special occasions like my brother with his restored muscle cars. I have a number of friends that have a large number of collector cars that are driven less than 200 miles a year. I cannot image driving a 1930's Bentley, Rolls Royce, Alfa Romeo or Bugatti on a 1,000 mile drive unless you have a repair crew on call.

 

[Subtle]

I drove my former Giulietta Spider on many 3-Day tours of around 1,000 miles.

With quite a bit of it hard driving on "B" roads.

Took the Super on one in September.

 

[Andrew]

I'm in the middle of a 750 engine rebuild now on a 58 Spider, and previously did a 56 Berlina engine. In terms of retaining value on the car, if you care, yes, original engine is pretty important. Even with a basically sound engine, it's not cheap nowadays to rebuild one, and 750s have their special qualities including unique main bearings, unique fuel pump, unique valves, lifters, cams, shims. Etc. But they've fundamentally similar to other Alfa engines are not really a mystery.

I guess depends on your intentions for the car, resources, patience, timeframe, etc.

Andrew

 

[divotandtralee]

Looking to pick up a 750D vin 1495*01174
All apart of course, the engine head was removed and sat for 40+ yrs. The pistons are frozen in the block, cams are rusty, head has a telltale line of epoxy between cyl heads. working in the 9k ish range. I'm thinking that will have to re sleeve the cyls as the tops are corroded. Or diff engine = no matching numbers
Thoughts ?

Just from two photos the car shows a high degree of promise..The early engine castings were quite porous and prone to corrosion. I would negotiate on the condition of the motor but if the seller stands firm then you have to ask if you really want it that bad... bad enough to do it and follow through. If you can confirm it is the absolute correct block, the value of the car at resale someday would be influenced positively.. how much? ....that can be argued over for days... and if the car is absolutely correct in every other way, when it is finished imo.

 

[kuni123456]

I believe that any 750/101 is worth more with the original engine especially when the 750 cars have a stamped number plate in the engine compartment. I know that 101 cars do not have this plate and Alfa Romeo will not give you the original engine number these days, but I wrote Alfa thirty years ago and they said that the engine was the original. I am not sure how much less a car is worth without the original engine and it depends upon the buyer. I also believe that most restored Giulietta cars will not be daily drivers and will be used only for special occasions. I did not drive my car for more than 30 years and decided to perform a complete restoration. I have a friend who owns a 101 SS and it has be driven about 1,000 miles in the last 35 years.

 

[Gordon Raymond]

This used to be a BIG DEAL with vintage Ferrari race car owners, and many blocks have been re-numbered over the years in some very ingenious way, for a "Numbers-Matching-Car". Then wiser minds prevailed, as concourse judges recognized that MANY engines were swapped over the years, PARTICULARLY in cars that were raced. Today a 1953 Ferrari 375 MM with a matching engine is SUSPECT. The engine TYPE and general configuration at build date is important. When Ferrari themselves restore a vintage Ferrari with missing engine or block, the recast block indicates type, and Ferrari notation it was a replacement block.
Those that know will seek out UNNUMBERED, factory replacement blocks for Alfa's with missing engines, or correct type for the period of manufacture. It was wise, in hindsight, foe Alfa's NOT to list engine numbers, and with increasing values, Alfa judging will follow the Ferrari model.
This is only my opinion based on my limited knowledge of Ferrari engine number history.

 

[Andrew]

I am currently going through expensive heck on a 1958 750 Normale block that spun the #2 main. Welding and machine work by Norman Racing, line bore by Reilly Restoration. Then back to Norman yesterday for more measuring and checking. Not my engine, the owner feels it's worth the extra work, in part on my advice, to keep the original otherwise good block with the car. I'd do it if it was my engine. It'll run into a couple thousand extra work at Calif rates.

Andrew

 

[Gordon Raymond]

I totally agree with Andrew. If you HAVE the original block, even damaged, save it and either repair it, or use a substitute and keep the original with the car. A well known race Ferrari was reunited with its original block, restored by a close friend. The block had 2 rods come out of oppisite sides of the block, taking out a main bearing web in the process.
This was in the mid 1950's. FIFTY years later, the ruined block came from New Zealand after the car owner located it, and went to my friends shop. It was a costly repair, but the original block is now back in the car, and the mismatched replacement block that was in the car for 40+ years, is now keep with the car.
Worthwhile if one has resources as Andrew points out!

 

[divotandtralee]

This used to be a BIG DEAL with vintage Ferrari race car owners, and many blocks have been re-numbered over the years in some very ingenious way, for a "Numbers-Matching-Car". Then wiser minds prevailed, as concourse judges recognized that MANY engines were swapped over the years, PARTICULARLY in cars that were raced. Today a 1953 Ferrari 375 MM with a matching engine is SUSPECT. The engine TYPE and general configuration at build date is important. When Ferrari themselves restore a vintage Ferrari with missing engine or block, the recast block indicates type, and Ferrari notation it was a replacement block.
Those that know will seek out UNNUMBERED, factory replacement blocks for Alfa's with missing engines, or correct type for the period of manufacture. It was wise, in hindsight, foe Alfa's NOT to list engine numbers, and with increasing values, Alfa judging will follow the Ferrari model.
This is only my opinion based on my limited knowledge of Ferrari engine number history.

Can you explain why a blank numbered block has any more provenance than a numbered block of correct vintage.. neither are the original engine.

 

[Gordon Raymond]

The unnumbered blocks were sold to dealers for specific replacements according to information from Bill Knauz, Knauz Continental Auto's in Lake Forest Illinois. Bill was a very early USA Alfa dealer, and explained to me that "once-upon-a-time" Alfa would supply dealers with specific "unnumbered" blocks upon documentation that originals had been destroyed. Dealers could re-number to match the originals in locations where engine seial numbers were required, or not.
As far as provenance, this information may, or may not have ANY importance. When I was a AUSCA, the GTA engines, and components moved around from car to car. There were unnumbered GTA blocks from Autodelta (I own one) and many race cars vanished into history with other cars blocks. The "matching-numbers" game is something probably created by OC people (like me). If there are NO records, who cares if the block is original??? Not me. If you HAVE an unmolested car and block, it seems nice to keep them together, like sox in your dresser drawer. Right Uncle?

 

[kuni123456]

I had a new 101 SS/SZ block and a 1600 replacement block that had no serial numbers. I know of a 750 Veloce replacement block that has no serial numbers. I believe that using a replacement block for a damaged engine was common many years ago. I also think that stamping numbers on a replacement block is up to the owner and should not devalue the car.