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I would lik everybody´s help on this one, could everybody give a final comment/assessment of what you think of the car disregarding cost. Thanks in advance
 

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I think restoring a 2-litre is a work of love, not a financially responsible act. I'm interested in the project also, but probably not at the listed price. I hope to look at it early next year and see what the pictures don't show. At the least I would intend to install the correct louvers on the sides, and make it a "right" 102 spider. This means that the current paint job will probably have to be largely redone.

Installing an all new wiring harness is a pain in the butt. The car will require far more work to finish than has gone into it already. My personal estimate would be 20K+ to finish the car, allowing nothing for my own time, and I build my own engines and mechanical work.

After buying the car for 9k (stated price), plus 20 - 25K to finish, one would have a (gasp), 25k car.

It should be viewed as a hobby, not an investment.

Don
 

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I would lik everybody´s help on this one, could everybody give a final comment/assessment of what you think of the car disregarding cost. Thanks in advance
I think the asking price is fair. If the car was in the US, it would have been sold at this price very quickly.
 

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I think I'd buy several properly restored 2000 Touring Spyder's at the $25K price.... Over the last several years (4-5), the classic car market has gone thru a large price expansion. An interesting side bar on this is that certain classics (E-types, XK's TR3's, AH3000) have seen their supply increase as junkers/parts cars get restored concurrent w/the price increases. As a result there seems to be a plateauing of pricing on some of these models. For the more unusual/rare cars, the trend still seems to be up. The 2000 appears to fall into this second category - very, very limited supply and a high demand for the unusual. For years, I believe, their price has been low in relation to their peers due to two things: 1)high cost of restoration or just keeping them on the road (in particular mechanical) and 2)low index of performance. Many cars these days are bought for styling reasons as much as for their "back in the day" performance and the Touring Spyder scores high marks for style. In addition the weak dollar has made these cars far more attractive to the European and other global markets. The net/net of this is - at $10K that car, as pictured, seems like a great bargain - certainly a fair deal at worst - even if another $20K is needed. Just my 2 cents....
 

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No basic argument with last two posts, but my main point was that the cost to restore one (even this one) generally equals or exceeds the market price. Whether my estimate of $25k is high or low by 5k, the cost to restore, plus labor costs, make them a hobby, not an investment. I have no argument with hobbies, and wouldn't mind doing another 102 spider in my life. Just sharing what seem to be a necessary truth - they ain't money makers, if that is what someone is considering.

Don
 

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Not A Money Maker

:)Man, that's the truth. I feel so sorry for anyone who looks at a two liter and hopes to make money on it. There is definitely a LIMITED MARKET. Only nutty old guys like me are in love with them. I have a PAST going back to 1959 when I got to drive one in Germany. First Alfa I had ever seen or even heard of. A fellow ski patrol buddy named Trossi (related to a guy who raced with Ferrari in the early days) went to Milan on a three day pass from Bertesgaden to pickup that car. He was NOT in love with the car, just what he knew it could do. He only wanted to pick up women. The Sgt had a TR-3 that the girls loved, so he needed better bait. And he certainly got it. He finally got thrown off the ski patrol and court martialed for having two girls PG at the same time (actually sisters to each other, and the events occuring in the same gasthaus run by their father). I guess each thought they were the only one. I got involved because he had no mechanical ability. He did not realize the wheel nuts were left hand thread on the drivers side. I changed a tire for him and he suddenly decided he needed a "riding mechanic". Actually I think he discovered the German Frauleins would be in pairs, and that it worked better if there were someone else with him. So, we would "troll" main street until we had a "strike". The girls would get in the front so he could shift their knees and I would get sideways in the back. We would drive around a while and he would finally divert to a gasthaus. After a while there he would throw me the keys so I could drive while he continued to ply both with storng drink. "Old Vat 69", he said, "always works best when it come to knowing women". He was a real hound. I would come back later, a sometimes find him, or find a note telling me to pick him up in the morning. Over the course of a month or more I grew quite fond of the car. It had a hot engine (not at all like the ones that got to the US). Since it was the factory demonstrator car for the model Alfa tried to get people interested in it while they decided exactly how cheaply to do the production run. I believe it had one of the extra sportiva engines (webers and dry sump). With it I could pass any car on the autobahn -- even if it was passing another car. Standard car that got to the US was never that hot. Even after experimenting for years to get the intake manifold to make webers work well I barely got rid of the log they supposedly came with to drag. But not everyone has the history to love these cars. There is probably never to be a market that gets out of hand. In Europe they may have sold one or two at 45,000 euros, but that is still quite extraordinary. If you want to get a car to make a profit, get a 1600 Veloce or a 1900 or something earlier. These beautiful two liter cars are to be driven, not put in a bank. And if it would really total $25,000 in cost by the time this car is finished, I'd still say it ought to be able to hold at least that value. If worst came to worst you could sell it in Europe when you finally got old or got tired of it. In the meanwhile, ask me for some help with the intake manifold modifications and the cold air box for webers to make driving it really great fun. Jay
 

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Too Tempting!

This car is so very tempting to me, as I have the perfect engine for it sitting on my garage floor: two-liter, narrow-angle twinspark. The 102 engine bay accepts the full motronic setup beautifully. It loses 200 pounds over the front wheels, gains 40hp, and reliability. It really transforms the car! I can install a good painless wiring kit in two days. If the body/interior/trim/parts are there and restorable, this could be a 'slam dunk' project. Too bad I'm a little xenophobic when it comes to doing business or traveling in Mexico. I'm also not looking for a project, right now.
Looks to me like the price is on the high side of 'market' but not by much, if at all. Now, if that price included delivery to San Diego.......
 

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2 litre Ts

I spotted a 102 somewhere with a Twin spark engine in it. My heart sank. I don't argue that it may make it a better car, but I really like the cast-iron engine and the way it feels and powers the car. Low RPM torque, and a great sound. I'm not exactly a purist when it comes to restoring old cars (or airplanes), but in this case I flinch when I think of losing the great character of that big hunk of engine.

I've never quite understood why people refer to the 102 as being "underpowered". The one I did was plenty fast, and felt completely un-strained while loafing down the highway. It is a highway car, after all, not a gymkhana auto-cross animal.

Don




Steve O; said:
This car is so very tempting to me, as I have the perfect engine for it sitting on my garage floor: two-liter, narrow-angle twinspark. The 102 engine bay accepts the full motronic setup beautifully. It loses 200 pounds over the front wheels, gains 40hp, and reliability. It really transforms the car! I can install a good painless wiring kit in two days. If the body/interior/trim/parts are there and restorable, this could be a 'slam dunk' project. Too bad I'm a little xenophobic when it comes to doing business or traveling in Mexico. I'm also not looking for a project, right now.
Looks to me like the price is on the high side of 'market' but not by much, if at all. Now, if that price included delivery to San Diego.......
 

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Don,

Could not agree with you more regarding the original engine and highway feel. Keeping these cars as original as possible makes sense, especially when they someday come into their own.

Mark
 

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Had it both ways...

I've had the cars both ways, and while I'm often a purist regarding many Alfa issues, this one is clear cut: the twinspark is better. The original engine was NOT Alfa's best product. Few had Webers, few ever performed up to their potential for a host of pesky ancillary reasons. So, if you're going to modify at all, well I say 'in for a penny, in for a pound.' Might as well make it drive as good as it looks. The ownership experience with the twinspark will be far better for a host of real-world reasons -- even at car shows and concours -- 'cause you know it will always start and run well. Also makes a project like this less intimidating, and more likely to go to completion.
You'd be amazed at how sporty the car feels. Doesn't even feel like it needs power steering anymore.:D
 

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Discussion Starter #32
Steve, I know the car and the seller, and I'm sure it could be delivered in San Diego for not that much dough. You could probably even arrange something like a very small down-payment (enough to cover transport) and pay the car once you get it. I'll be glad to help out in any way I can. I have lived and done business in Mexico for a very long time.

Henry
 

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2000 in Mexico City

Hello Juan Antonio,

I flew down to Mexico City with the plan to buy this project, but after looking at it I declined. I suspect it is still for sale.

The owner is a genuinely nice guy, so I wouldn't want my comments to reflect on him, or the legitimacy of his offering. For everyone's benefit, however, this is what I found...

The body appears to be quite rust-free, although I suspect it had some in the past. The front floor boards are gone, and need replacement, and the "shark-gills" just ahead of the doors have been removed. I suspect this was done to repair rust in this area, and the previous owner just skinned over the area rather than find replacement "gills". Unfortunately, when the body repairman did this work, They did not produce a nice straight front door opening line. This means when the door is mounted, there would be a nice gap line until about 6 inches from the bottom, at which point a triangular gap opens up to perhaps 3/4". This is on both sides. A mystery why so much work was done without making it correct.

Also, the current owner used a pair of doors off of his parts car. Apparently the project car did not come with doors. He had a very nice lacquer paint applied to everything, but did so before test-fitting the replacement doors. Guess what? They don't fit. I suspect they can be made to do so, but it may require trimming the doors. Between the necessary revisions to the doors and the work required to fix the shark-gill area, the car will probably have to be repainted to get it all to match.

The engine is missing the oil pump and distributor. These can probably be found somewhere.

Although he has a parts car, there are a great many parts that are missing. Some chrome, interior parts, etc. The spare tire chamber is gone, although the parts car can probably donate a replacement. It will mean some welding in an area that has already been painted, of course.

The entire car is painted in red lacquer. To be correct, many of the interior spaces should be black.

It will probably need a new windshield, but these are apparently easily obtained in Mexico. The owner has obtained a lot of nice little pieces toward the restoration, such as various tags, new door glass, windshield rubber surround, etc.

So - in my opinion it is a reasonable starting spot, but not at the current price, and will require the acquisition of at least one more parts car, or many individual pieces.

Then there is the challenge of importing it to the US. Not insurmountable, but it adds a few wrinkles.

Enjoy,
Don
 

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Hi Don:

Couldn´t agree with you more, I´ve been trying to find a car for a while and it has proven to be a more difficult task than I suspected. What I've seen on ebay and other sites seems to be not worth the effort or price.

Well anyway, I guess I'll just keep searching.....

Thanks for your comments
Juan Antonio
 
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