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Discussion Starter #1
I've been offered a 2000 Spider and am thinking of giving the 2600 spider some company. The car is in mid restoration, but seems to be all there. The engine is apart as is the interior. Bodywork has been done to a very good standard and it has been painted, all documented, no rust is left. Suspension and brakes are back on the car. The engine is supposedly ready for reassembly. Has hard top. It comes with another parts car in sorry state.

What do you think something like this could be worth? (see pictures please)
 

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Boy, something like this is very hard to price. Clearly the current owner has spent a bundle on paint & body and chrome. If he had the suspension work done professionally, that could have cost a few bucks as well.

The issue is that a partially completed car is worth a LOT less than a finished one. There is still a lot of time and money required to complete the drivetrain, upholstery, wiring, and the myriad of bits that need to be sourced/installed/connected/adjusted to turn a pile of parts into a running, reliable car.

I am guessing that the seller said "make me an offer", and you're wondering where to start. I suppose that two datapoints would be the $ spent to date, and the market value for 2 liters given by "Sports Car Market News". I'll bet that these two numbers aren't far apart - that is, that the current owner is already "underwater". Some fraction of that figure - say 1/2 - might be one place to begin the negotiations.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks, the current owner is clearly under water and he knows it. He also needs to get rid of the car fairly soon, he's loosing his storage space and needs the $ to finish a Veloce project (I think it can be seen in the background in one of the photos).

He didn't ask for an offer, he pointed out an amount he wanted for the car and I'm trying to figure out if it's reasonable.

Motorbase lists the range from 3 to 14,000 pounds
SCM between $12 and $15 thounsand

But both of these numbers are way behind current market, there is one in ebay germany for 45 thousand Euros (I guess it never hurts to ask).

Anyway, the asking price is in the lower range of the Motorbase number, single digit thousands.
 

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I will tell you my opinion. It is very personnal. The car that is for sale at 45 KEuros is worth that amount. But noboby will pay for it. I have seen these cars, in very good condition, go for 35 K DOLLARS.
Based on the pictures you posted, without having seen the car personnaly, I would easily go to 10 KDOLLARS. There is a shell car (200 Touring) for sale in Europe (no engine, complete rust, no lights no top...) There are bids for 3 KEuros if I am correct (E-bay).
You´ve got a deal. Go for it. Good luck, we love you for that deal. These cars deserve people who love and drive them...
 

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I'm gonna say two contradictory things, so stick with me here:

- Partially completed cars generally sell at a deep discount. I don't have a grudge against the current owner, but the guy is in a difficult bargaining position. No auction or consignment house is going to accept a partially completed car, there is a smaller population of buyers who will take on a project, and he has time constraints. Bargain accordingly.

- If you really want the car, then what you pay is somewhat irrelevant. The $ that changes hands between you and its current owner is just your down payment. With engine, interior, and whatever else still ahead, the real price is where you are at the completion of the project. And again, if you are going to be keeping the car for some time, plus/minus a few thousand will become minor in the grand scheme of things.

I hope I haven't confused matters!
 

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Anyway, the asking price is in the lower range of the Motorbase number, single digit thousands.
I think as long as you are in single digit thousands, you should be OK. The most expensive work is bodywork, and that's all been sorted per your description. It also depends on how much of the work that is left you can and are willing to do yourself
 

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I believe that the SCM price guide has been updated this year and has prices for the 2000 that are more in line with the current market. I don't have mine in front of me at the moment, but I recall that the percentage increase was significant, and the value of a good #2 car was in the mid to high $20k USD. I have seen 2000's sell for up to $44k USD, with most of the good ones in the high $20's to low $30's.

From the photos, it appears that everything has been nicely done so far. My own project is at what appears to be about the same state, and even with doing a lot of stuff myself I don't even want to think what my cash outlay has been so far. Rebuilding the engine can be an expensive proposition just in parts alone. I finally managed to source a complete set of engine bearings from OKP after a long wait, and those were over $700!!!! I agree that about 50% of the price of a completed car is probably about right in this case given that there is still a lot left to do.

That being said, there are risks in buying someone else's incomplete project (AMHIK...:eek:). I bought mine in very rough shape, but partially dismantled, and it has been a challenge to find all of the correct little brackets and widgets that the PO casually lost or mislabled etc. However, if you want a project this looks like a better one than most of the rust buckets we normally see.

What is that color, by the way? It doesn't appear to be anything that was originally offered on one of these cars. It is strangely appealing.

Arno Leskinen
AROC-USA National Concours Chair
1961 2000 Spider
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks Arno, the color is red, the pictures I posted are poor pictures. I have been thinking long about this and I'm going to pass. The asking price is $9,000 in case anyone is interested. I'll be glad to PM the owners information to anyone that so requests it.

Couple more picture to try and show correct color

Henry
 

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Good Value for Someone

The pictures seem to show good quality work being done so far. As long as all of the major parts are there (e.g., I presume the doors are stashed somewhere and come with the car, etc.) the price seems reasonable. I bought a '59 from a barn in Utah where it had sat with the engine disassembled for 29 years, and had about $10k in it by the time it looked like this. I chose not to mess with the old cast iron engine and instead converted to a late model motronic twinspark two liter. I love the result, and would encourage whoever snaps this one up to do the same (unless the original engine is really ready for reassembly, with all parts sourced and machine work complete.)
One thing that puzzles me is the absence of the faux vents usually found behind the front wheels...and is it just my interpretation of the photos, or does the rear trunk have the higher 2600 contour? What model year is this car?:confused:
Cool project for someone (besides me)!
 

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I don't know 102 cars all that well, but 3 things caught my attention:

1. The hard top seems to be a 106 hardtop, not a 102 (note the mismatch in the curvature of the bottom of the hardtop and the car's body -- the gap below the rear windshield cannot be missed).

2. The tires seem to be new but look too small. The profile is neither Michelin or Pirelli. What tires are they and what size?

3. Were there 102 cars made that didn't have any louvres on the side of the front fenders (i.e. Europe vs. USA models)?
 

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As far as I know, the louvers/gills were present on all 102 Spiders. Even the photos of the prototypes I have seen (which often have significant differences from the production cars like a strip speedo) have the louvers.

Someone correct me if I am wrong here, but I recall while doing the bodywork on my car that the louvers are actually a separate piece that is welded to the rest of the fender. It could be that this was once a seriously rusty car, and instead of trying to replicate the louvers they just cut them out and welded in a plain patch panel or did a cut and shut with part of a 2600 fender.

Also, the fenderwells should not be painted body color but should instead have a textured black undercoat finish.

Arno Leskinen
AROC-USA National Concours Chair
1961 2000 Spider
 

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I don't know 102 cars all that well, but 3 things caught my attention:

1. The hard top seems to be a 106 hardtop, not a 102 (note the mismatch in the curvature of the bottom of the hardtop and the car's body -- the gap below the rear windshield cannot be missed).

2. The tires seem to be new but look too small. The profile is neither Michelin or Pirelli. What tires are they and what size?

3. Were there 102 cars made that didn't have any louvres on the side of the front fenders (i.e. Europe vs. USA models)?
All 102 spiders had louvers

European cars had both chrome stripes down the sides of the cars; US cars had the full lower stripe, but the shorter top stripe

European cars had the hood scoops spread apart; US cars had the hood scoops right next to each other, with a chrome stripe between them. The car pictred is a US market car.

All 102s had 165x400mm tires

I agree that the hardtop on this car is from a 106/2000 (or maybe an aftermarket, rather than a factory top made by Touring)
 

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Wow! A Steal!

The seller is really out lots of money for the body job. But it is great. True the undercarriage is supposed to be black -- inside of fenders and the "frame" to which the suspension attaches. But that is not fatal. The red is beautiful even if it might not be the original color (lots of people like red, and this bright red especially). The lack of the "hash mark" louvers behind the front wheel is not fatal either because they did nothing functional. The 2600 actually had the same panel, just eliminated them. But I suspect he still has the metal pieces so if someone is so determined to be exact, some metal work could be amended to put them on. But why? As for the hardtop, I know there were at least three different styles for the two liter. I've had all three (as well as the Parish Plastic ones). This one I call type one, the one without much rear window. There is a second one that I like best, the one on my two liter. They are "fitted" at the factory to the particular cars. There is a Touring hardtop coupe Lancia of about the same era with the exact same rear window. This one does not yet have the glass in it, and will flatten enough when it is in to catch the middle "hook". It is NOT a 2600 hardtop. My personal experience is that the 2600 has a higher center deck and when a 2600 hard top is used on a two liter it "high centers" rather than has a gap. It cannot lock down on both sides (I tried, and finally had to put it back on the 2600, but still have a 2600 top now as well as two two liter tops in addition to the one on my "baby". Tires are probably 165x400, but neither perelli nor michelin, probably semperit in brand. They just look small because the car is not down sitting on the wheels. FRANKLY, $9,000 is a steal. Somebody go get this. I will help any buyer with the engine. Finished one this Spring for a fellow in Costa Mesa. Was shocked at the parts prices, because I had to get fourth oversize pistons from Christian at OKT in Munich. I can't find the photos on my computer right now, but perhaps I should post them when I find them so we know what a decent engine should look like. And, by the way, the original pan was NOT ALWAYS painted bluish green like the FISPA filter cannister. They usually were a creamy grey, and most that finally got to me were repained silver. But since I know not all the pans were of the same color anyway, the other thread makes little sense. I have had so many of these that I disregard the pan colors. Most are grubby with oil and dirt by the time I see them, and when they come out of the solvent tank it is always surprising to see what color they were originally. When I find the engine phots I will post them. Jay
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
I have finally decided to pass on this one. So if anyone wants to take Jay's advice, let me know and I'll be glad to give out the sellers contact info and help out in any way, since the car is very close to where I am.
 

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Hello Henry,

I'm currently planning a business trip to Mexico for early - mid January. If the Spider(s) are still there I'll plan to go on down with the mind to try and strike a deal. Also - if you dig up the other one you mentioned that would make the trip even more worthwhile. Always better to have a bigger pile to start from.
Thanks,
Don P.
 
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