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just purchased a 1994 164 ls, as if i was asking for trouble i have a different94 ls but it is an automatic, i wanted to try a 5 speed this time. This one only has 73,000 miles on the clock. Ok, here is the problems. 1) car runs like a bag of poop. 2) dashboard intermittently goes out and all guages and lights in dash cluster are dead, h/vac is dead also. only things that work are headlights, wipers, left blinker, and not sure if brake lights work, even the check engine light is out. I need to fix number 2 before i can start number 1(insert joke here). I can't do the motronix self diagnosis because I cant catch the check engine light. I'm going to try to keep searching the archives for someone with simular problems. Im a pretty good mechanic, but i really dont like electrical, and this car scares me with its 20 miles of wiring and 200 different relays:001_unsure: I have the set of factory manuals including all tsb's, but I'm just looking for a starting point. possible ignition switch ?
 

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Ignition switch a good place to start. Check red wire for 12v with key off or on. Then if you have 12v jumper to pink and see if dash lights up. Jump to brown and see if engine starts when you turn key to start.

Report your findings/progress.
 

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let me give a suggestion. First, check your battery voltage and connections, charge the battery if needed. Start the car and measure the battery voltage at the battery connections themselves.

Second, put a fuel pressure gauge on the fuel rail, start the car and record the pressure. Then turn car off and wait 5 minutes and report pressure again.

I know you have something electrical going on, but this car can run (and should run) with a strong 12V ; fuel; and air. Probably easiest to get the car running before you tackle electrical problems (at least it would be for me)

See if you can find someone close by with a marelli tester. One thing -- if the bulb is removed from the check engine light, that means someone took the dash out., I'd look there first for unplugged connectors/etc after you get the motor running.
 

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thats the problem, the bulb is there, and i cant get it to go on . i've seen it on but when you turn off car and go to do the turn key to run and press gas pedal 5 times quick it goes back in hiding
 

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AHHH -- you have to completely MASH the gas pedal down HARD then up 5 times in 4 or 5 seconds. Most people don't MASH the pedal all the way to the floor -- all the way to the floor and then it will work if your TPS is correctly adjusted
 

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Discussion Starter #6
i turn key to run position, and the dash is dead, no check engine light, no tack, no oil, volts, temp, NADA. even when running
 

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Ok, here is the update, I studied the factory workshop manual for about 4 hours on and off, taking breaks so my eyes would stop hurting. found there was one hot wire in instrument cluster that supplies all the power to dash, pink wire off of ignition key. pink wire is hot when key is turned on, found fusebox g2 fuse 2 and sono mourte. I took out fuse and jumped wire from pink on ignition switch to fuse #2 in g2, turned key on and, da, da, daaaaa! dash is all lit up and check engine light is on, I did the key on gas pedal 5 times and i get code 1255, camshaft position sensor. O-boy, I find out thats not good as no one on earth makes this anymore. I called Vicks Auto Sports and they said, " oooh, thats not good, have fun finding one of those". Ok, so after I was done swearing and pacing up and down the hallway I decided to try Rock Auto. They list one for a European model that is 4wd and was built after jan 1993, and it sais for a 3.0 24 valve. I called Rock Auto and they told me what they were supposed to tell me, that it wouldn't work. So, I bought both of them, thinking that I have nothing to loose except $130.00, shipping from U.K. is $32.00. My thought is to test them like you would one out of my car and if all the peramiters are all good and the actual piece measures up and fits, than its got to work. There was a picture of it on Rock Auto and it looked identical except the wires came out in a different position in relation to the bolt hole. the one that came out of the car is, if bolt hole is at 12 0'clock, the wires come out at the 3 o'clock position, the new one is bolt hole at 12 and wires at 6. I dont think that will interfier? so nothing is fixed yet , just waiting on Fed Ex now. i'm tempted to just run a jumper wire from pink on ignition switch to pink on back of fuse 2 in g2. I don't see any relays in between those wires , boggles my mind and hate to backfeed it but seems like its the way to go without going KRAZEY. any other thoughts on this illusive pink wire dead in car somewhere in back od dash after it goes out of the ignition switch and before it goes ino fuse 2 in g2?
 

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1255 code will NOT have an effect on engine running as long as timing is correct. I would guess that the engine timing is off. I;d cancel your order ASAP and check timing before you do anything else. Do a search for 24 valve timing belt on this forum for explanations
 

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Ok, here is the update, I studied the factory workshop manual for about 4 hours on and off, taking breaks so my eyes would stop hurting. found there was one hot wire in instrument cluster that supplies all the power to dash, pink wire off of ignition key. pink wire is hot when key is turned on, found fusebox g2 fuse 2 and sono mourte. I took out fuse and jumped wire from pink on ignition switch to fuse #2 in g2, turned key on and, da, da, daaaaa! dash is all lit up and check engine light is on, I did the key on gas pedal 5 times and i get code 1255, camshaft position sensor. O-boy, I find out thats not good as no one on earth makes this anymore. I called Vicks Auto Sports and they said, " oooh, thats not good, have fun finding one of those". Ok, so after I was done swearing and pacing up and down the hallway I decided to try Rock Auto. They list one for a European model that is 4wd and was built after jan 1993, and it sais for a 3.0 24 valve. I called Rock Auto and they told me what they were supposed to tell me, that it wouldn't work. So, I bought both of them, thinking that I have nothing to loose except $130.00, shipping from U.K. is $32.00. My thought is to test them like you would one out of my car and if all the peramiters are all good and the actual piece measures up and fits, than its got to work. There was a picture of it on Rock Auto and it looked identical except the wires came out in a different position in relation to the bolt hole. the one that came out of the car is, if bolt hole is at 12 0'clock, the wires come out at the 3 o'clock position, the new one is bolt hole at 12 and wires at 6. I dont think that will interfier? so nothing is fixed yet , just waiting on Fed Ex now. i'm tempted to just run a jumper wire from pink on ignition switch to pink on back of fuse 2 in g2. I don't see any relays in between those wires , boggles my mind and hate to backfeed it but seems like its the way to go without going KRAZEY. any other thoughts on this illusive pink wire dead in car somewhere in back od dash after it goes out of the ignition switch and before it goes ino fuse 2 in g2?

First off on this finding: "Ok, here is the update, I studied the factory workshop manual for about 4 hours on and off, taking breaks so my eyes would stop hurting. found there was one hot wire in instrument cluster that supplies all the power to dash, pink wire off of ignition key. pink wire is hot when key is turned on, found fusebox g2 fuse 2 and sono mourte. I took out fuse and jumped wire from pink on ignition switch to fuse #2 in g2, turned key on and, da, da, daaaaa! dash is all lit up and check engine light is on."

See power distribution wiring diagrams pages 600-601 in 94 wiring diagrams

What you have done is bypassed key operated relay I35 So I would expect that relay is bad. It is top and most rearward relay in 6 relay cluster to right of ignition switch and driver's knee area . It is located between a fuse holder and starter relay I10.

At rest with key off trunk and fuel door will work but with key on they will not so if with key on they work I suspect I35 relay not energizing to disable trunk and fuel door and feed dash through 10A fuse F2 in G2 aux fuse box.

As for 1255 code: As Bob is saying I suspect your engine cam timing is off a couple teeth on at least one cam on rear head. You have a mis match between crankshaft postion timing sensor and cam angle sensor hence throwing you a 1255 code.

Note: S31 RPM/Timing crank sensor and S52 cam angle sensors are basically the same just the lengtrh of the cables are different
 

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Discussion Starter #11
just pulled off the cam sensor on my other 94 164 ls, and installed it on other ls, and wat, wat, waaaaaa!(thats the sound on the price is rite when you loose, lol!!) that what I heard! runs the same, i'm going to look up how to check the timing marks on car. I suspect thats the problem if two well seasoned guys are telling me this, than i guess its time for a timing belt, O-BOY!!!! ok here is something I can't comprehend about those electrical diagrams, where is the list to tell you what the numbers next to the relays and what G1 is or G2? i had to look it up on line and found answers here? but doesnt the manual have this info?
 

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Thumb back a few pages from the diagram...you'll see a sketch of the car and where items are located; however comma that diagram isn't always very useful and you have to rely on the wise guys:)
 

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Location of relays on 24V cars is shown really nicely in the Electrical Quick Reference Guide I posted (or Steve posted for me here on the BB) a few years ago on PDF........
 

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Well, that was handy. Just printed off a copy. Thanks.
 
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