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I recently heard about a tourist driver reversing in a traffic circle because he had passed his exit!!!!

As for pointless braking I'm always struck by the number of drivers who brake only after entering a corner "too fast". In winter these guys slide off the road. Then there are those who lift off during a skid only to slide off the road nose first but on the inside of the curve, then look stunned by the event as if some supernatural force was involved.

"Better" driver training, for North America at least, would mean some minimal driver training. I can assure European readers that driver training in North America is limited to ensuring an imperfect knowledge of the rules of the road (I think 80% is the pass rate, and I'm thinking 100% is required for a minimum level of safety) and demonstrating a very rudimentary level of car control by parallel parking a car in a space twice as long as the car.

Stop laughing, I am not overstating this idiocy one iota.

Anywhere in North America a 16 year old (14 here) can obtain a driver's license without demonstrating the following skills: emergency braking (that one's a cracker, I've actually taught very experienced drivers this exceptionally simple driving skill, much to their surprise!! what's that smell they say?), emergency avoidance steering, driving at highway speeds, driving at night, driving in the rain, driving in winter, noting cross road signage when passing through an intersection, observing under parked vehicles for signs of concealed pedestrians and so on. Appalling low levels of skill are the result.

This corresponds to the dismal vehicle purchasing decisions. I mean if your driving skills are so poor a land yacht seems perfect.
 

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I have had manual shift Alfas since 1963, but accepted the dual clutch paddle shift transmission in our new VW GTI (a Giulia is too big for our taste, beyond our price range, and the nearest dealer was 80 miles away). I have to say this tranny is easy to drive and I can play with the paddles when I feel frisky. Sacrilege?. I might have thought so in the past but times change and, personally, there's no cure for the common birthday.

I've been a almost lifelong Alfa fan, but I could live with an automatic. Rather not, since I always have more fun shifting our cars, but what the heck.
 

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"Better" driver training, for North America at least, would mean some minimal driver training. I can assure European readers that driver training in North America is limited to ensuring an imperfect knowledge of the rules of the road (I think 80% is the pass rate, and I'm thinking 100% is required for a minimum level of safety) and demonstrating a very rudimentary level of car control by parallel parking a car in a space twice as long as the car.

Stop laughing, I am not overstating this idiocy one iota.

Anywhere in North America a 16 year old (14 here) can obtain a driver's license without demonstrating the following skills: emergency braking (that one's a cracker, I've actually taught very experienced drivers this exceptionally simple driving skill, much to their surprise!! what's that smell they say?), emergency avoidance steering, driving at highway speeds, driving at night, driving in the rain, driving in winter, noting cross road signage when passing through an intersection, observing under parked vehicles for signs of concealed pedestrians and so on. Appalling low levels of skill are the result.

This corresponds to the dismal vehicle purchasing decisions. I mean if your driving skills are so poor a land yacht seems perfect.
Absolutely correct! I took "Driver's Ed" in high school and it was more or less a joke. We did go on the highway a few times, and we did parallel park and make 3 point turns, but there was no teaching of any of the things you really need like @Michael Smith pointed out. Imagine how different the highway landscape would be if people actually knew ALL the rules? Or, actually slowed down a little when driving in rain?

I've done NASA NE's HPDE at Lime Rock, and I learned a heck of a lot about pushing my car (and myself) to the limit. I wantdo it regularly and rise up through the levels of HPDE, but that does require a lot of time and $$. Still, in Gepetto's World© all drivers would have to do HPDE (or similar), and pass with a perfect score, to get and maintain a driver's license. The numbers of licensed driver's would decrease by at least 25%, and accidents would likely plummet.
 

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Just for fun.

Giulia 952 Length: 182.6in
Giulia 105 Length: 163.0in

952 width: 73.7in
105 Width: 61.4in

952 height: depends on model but average: 56.5in
105 height: Also may depend but published: 56.3in

We are not talking HUGE differences here. Little Toy against massive BULKY Fat Americanized new Alfa. Biggest difference is width @12.3in
I'd say if you don't own one, you might want to re-think what you state here. Most of what has been stated is fairly false, it's just opinion based on no real experience in the car. Stating one is tiny over the other which is bulky is so far from the truth its funny!

Stop dogging the car, it's old already. Those that own them, love them and many long long time Alfa guys like myself and even older. You're not convincing me or others of anything except the ones that are in the club to hate on this car.
 

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Wow, I could not be more wrong!

Okay, I guess I just don't like the looks and should keep that to myself.
Pete
Well said.
 

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Once you drive a new Giulia TI Sport in anger, and push the car, it becomes very clear it's a real, 21st century, Alfa Romeo.

At Pittsburgh, I saw and spoke to many happy owners of new Stelvios and Giulias.
 

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Nobody needs to get bent about this. I assure you all that if I had one, I would have a ton of fun in it. That is what it is all about. We all know it is totally and exceedingly competent, competing against the best. No argument there.

It is just my own personal preference for things like manual shifting, mostly because I am very used to it, have done it since the late 50's, and feel uninvolved when driving with rented auto equipped cars (yeah, yeah, I know, not the same, lol). Of course, if I could rent a Giulia at a decent price...

Same for not caring too much for the overall design aesthetics of the new Giulia, but it's no big deal, just my own artistic preference. Car designs/shapes are artwork/sculpture, and everyone has personal likes and dislikes in the arts. It's being human.
 

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i dont give a hoot about it EXCEPT that, in my opinion, that only an judgemental imbecile would classify buyers or drivers as supporting/liking/engaging in Alfa Romeo automobiles based on whether they own/drive/like any style of transmission.
 

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i dont give a hoot about it EXCEPT that, in my opinion, that only an judgemental imbecile would classify buyers or drivers as supporting/liking/engaging in Alfa Romeo automobiles based on whether they own/drive/like any style of transmission.
Right on!! And honestly, when I did drive the Stelvio Sport and Giulia TI Sport, flicking those paddle shifters up and down through the gears, I was recalling videos of Larini in the touring car championship 155 flicking that sequential gearbox. Hey-- it's the same process, right?? :grin2: FORZA!
 

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Right on!! And honestly, when I did drive the Stelvio Sport and Giulia TI Sport, flicking those paddle shifters up and down through the gears, I was recalling videos of Larini in the touring car championship 155 flicking that sequential gearbox. Hey-- it's the same process, right?? :grin2: FORZA!
Pretty much! In 1994 too.
 

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"I assure you all that if I had one, I would have a ton of fun in it. That is what it is all about".

Have owned and driven nothing(!) but Alfas since the middle 60's, and I guess in my book that makes me a true Alfa fan (?), regardless of the drive train.
 

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It's side impact protection that increases vehicle weight so much and adds that width to the body.

As for driver ed I propose issuing simulators as for police training but put into very high school in the country. I've spoken to police officers on many occasions about these simulators. Not only do they save a huge pile of money because the virtual cars are fixed with a press of the reset button they also give police officers a much better bad crash experience. Now when the trainee really screws up he or she doesn't end up in hospital for a couple of weeks, they get to press reset and immediately explore their mistakes.

For high school drivers, especially young men, the idea is to require them to drive the simulator way beyond their capabilities (not difficult just btw) and experience the catastrophic effects of that over and over again. Blood dripping down their virtual faces. Believe me, what high school boys fear most of all is failure, especially in front of others. I say force them to fail, repeatedly, until they can drive those simulators at ridiculously high speeds without failing. Just as those police trainees must do in order to do their job. Rest assured if this is done properly not one of those young men will outdrive their abilities in the real world. Bonus, their actual abilities will far exceed their willingness to end up in hospital with that big L on their forehead.

The eye opener for me was a couple of track sessions in actual racing cars in my late 50's . Discovering by objective lap times that I had developed the necessary skills to be safe and very quick on a race track first time out by learning all those skills over 40 years of driving only on public roads was a truly sobering experience. What I didn't know while learning all of that apparently and miraculously didn't kill me or anyone else, but boy that was a miracle.

The idea that you encourage young men to take chances by affording them the opportunity to drive too fast on simulators is as patently ridiculous as suggesting playboy ( or whatever the current Internet version might be) encourages disrespect for their girlfriend. On the contrary, forcing the issue has the opposite effect and on young men in particular.
 

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"I assure you all that if I had one, I would have a ton of fun in it. That is what it is all about".

Have owned and driven nothing(!) but Alfas since the middle 60's, and I guess in my book that makes me a true Alfa fan (?), regardless of the drive train.
To be a true petrolhead you must have owned at least one Alfa Romeo. If a 6C or 8C from the thirties doesn't move you then you are not really a car nut.
 

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I learned to drive in a school provided new 1960 Ford four door sedan with three on the tree. After the first drive, the instructor said, you already know how to drive. No, I said, I've never driven before at all, but driving this stick shift car is simple/easy, you can just feel what is happening all of the time, but it's learning the various driving conditions, remembering the rules of the road, and learning how to pay attention to all the other drivers which are the difficult parts. Did it all in Alfas, after the basics in the Minis (still the absolute best handling cars I've ever driven).

He just shook his head, since what he had to offer in actual driving and schooling just wasn't all that much.

And, I'm quite sure I could have a ton of fun driving a new Giulia once I got used to a different way to drive, ie, no engine braking, not pushing in on the imaginary clutch pedal (did that once in my father's Mazda 626 in order to do a nice double clutch downshift. Needless to say, it and my Father did not appreciate the sudden braking at speed). Hard to get used to having only a brake pedal there after many years of having a third pedal, the reactions being quite "automatic", and not having engine braking, lol.

Still learning after all these years.
 

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Or this...
Bigger sometimes is better, but they both were near the top of the food chain in their respect decades.
 

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Bigger? Yeah a bit. 40 years of car development and crashworthiness will do that.

I was reminded of why we need cars that a bit more crashworthy just the other day. The road near my house (which is in a *very* nice area of Scottsdale) was closed for 6 hours a few days ago. Why? Because a 22 year old was street racing in his M4 alongside a late model Lamborghini, and hit a 90's Corrola broadside as the 68 year old lady driving it turned, not thinking there would be cars streaking down the road in the middle of the day through what should be a 40mph zone. The impact sent her car 165 feet down the road. She of course died. The driver of the M4 received minor injuries. The Lambo driver sped off, and still has not been caught.

No one driving an older car would survive that. However the fact that the M4 driver received only minor injuries speaks to the engineering of modern cars.

For a pleasure drive, I love my old cars. But I mainly take them to closed tracks now. The GTV6 is a hoot out there, and my 500hp ZR-1 with a 6-speed manual is absolute insanity (and quite a handful). The Vette may hold up to a crash like that, despite it's age, because of what it was designed to do (180+ top speed...). But I'd not want to get hit in my GTV6 (or a Yaris or any other micro-car) by an M4 going 120+ in a 40.
 

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Bigger? Yeah a bit. 40 years of car development and crashworthiness will do that.

I was reminded of why we need cars that a bit more crashworthy just the other day. The road near my house (which is in a *very* nice area of Scottsdale) was closed for 6 hours a few days ago. Why? Because a 22 year old was street racing in his M4 alongside a late model Lamborghini, and hit a 90's Corrola broadside as the 68 year old lady driving it turned, not thinking there would be cars streaking down the road in the middle of the day through what should be a 40mph zone. The impact sent her car 165 feet down the road. She of course died. The driver of the M4 received minor injuries. The Lambo driver sped off, and still has not been caught.

No one driving an older car would survive that. However the fact that the M4 driver received only minor injuries speaks to the engineering of modern cars.

For a pleasure drive, I love my old cars. But I mainly take them to closed tracks now. The GTV6 is a hoot out there, and my 500hp ZR-1 with a 6-speed manual is absolute insanity (and quite a handful). The Vette may hold up to a crash like that, despite it's age, because of what it was designed to do (180+ top speed...). But I'd not want to get hit in my GTV6 (or a Yaris or any other micro-car) by an M4 going 120+ in a 40.
I agree with you. I was just in Scottsdale over the weekend, that is just sad. I am sure they find the lambo idiot. Not a huge pool of those around. I do feel much safer in this car than I did in my 164. The size of SUVs these days compared to even my 1991 164, that was a toy next to a bulky thing. The 164 was built well but would not survive a serious hit from a 5000lb vehicle doing even 70mph. I have kids and one that is 3 so safety was a huge factor. I love old cars but I can't bother with them these days when it comes to safety. The new cars are just better. The old cars are nostalgic along with the technology to some extent.
 
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