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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just some observations and documentation of swapping from original Dunlop brakes front and back to larger Ate from the 2-liter cars. I'm sure I'll have some questions if I hit roadblocks or things I haven't done before. I'm replacing master cylinder, pipes, calipers, and rotors, as well as front uprights and rear axle with a LS rear end. My car ('67 1600) is a single circuit, no booster car.

Out of curiosity, I measured the front rotors as I replaced the suspension -
Old 1600 rotors: 285mm ø and 8mm thick.
New rotors: 270mm ø and 12mm thick.

Maybe the newer brakes are more powerful and don't need as much swept area...?

The old front rotors have what look to me like screwed in wheel studs with hex heads, and bent tabs to retain them. (I've only seen the smooth heads and D-shaped)

Wheel Automotive tire Wood Rim Tread


My new rotors have no studs, so I was about to pull out the impact wrench to pull the studs out and swap them over. Glad I waited and read up more.

Vehicle brake Bicycle part Rim Gas Auto part


Since I've been away from this car for a few years, and I've never taken the brakes off, I made some stupid assumptions. Why did the holes in the hub and rotor hat not line up? Did I buy the wrong used hubs and uprights from that guy long ago? Did I buy the wrong rotors new, and do I still have the receipts? Now what? - the hub is way too big for the hole....

Headgear Gas Helmet Hat Costume hat


So thanks to all the info stored away in the AlfaBB, and more reading, I dug around and found another box of what I was sure was rear rotors........

And look, they fit perfectly and already have studs.....

Light Gas Circle Auto part Table


So my advice is go slow, read, measure, double check, and don't assume.

Any ideas on the different size / area of the Dunlop vs newer Ate? Were the small Ate rotors the same as the Dunlop? Or were there three different types - Early Dunlop, early Ate, and later Ate?

Thanks -
 

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What are going to do with the Dunlop stuff? May be interested is front calipers.
Let me know, Tony
 

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Dunlop front rotors are retained to the hub with bolts and lock tabs. The studs are press fit into the hub and should work on the Ate hubs. This is standard British practice for hubs and rotors. What style of master cylinder are you replacing and what is the size? I am looking for Bonaldi style 20mm size that I can have sleeved and rebuilt.
 

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If you reuse the studs do not mix them up as the threads are different for left (lefty tighten) and right (lefty loosie) side.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
I haven't thought about that yet. Keep them in cosmoline forever in case originality is critical? Sell the whole system complete? Duettos came down the line with one or the other brakes, depending what was next on top of the bin. I don't think that bit of originality is important to me - this car's for driving.

Oh, so I'm NOT seeing the wheel studs from the back, those are the bolts holding the hub on - ah ha.

MC is original OE I believe - when I get to it, I'll check.

Right - lefties and righties on the correct sides!
 

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The new rotors you got with the studs are probably the same studs. Alfa did away with the opposite studs in 72. After that all the front rotors came with the same studs.
 

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You should be able to. Remove one of the newer ones and try. You will probably need to press them out or use a 1/4 inch center punch and hammer to get it out.
 

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Put a lug nut on the stud and smack it with a hammer. That's how to get them out and protect the threads. They come out pretty easy. Use a real hammer, not a baby hammer.
 

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Are the uprights the same on Dunlop and Ate brake cars? The mounting plates for the calipers can not be the same. I thought you need to change the whole spindle assembly if you want Ate brakes. Maybe I am incorrect, who knows.
 

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Are the uprights the same on Dunlop and Ate brake cars? The mounting plates for the calipers can not be the same. I thought you need to change the whole spindle assembly if you want Ate brakes. Maybe I am incorrect, who knows.
I’m almost certain the uprights are different between the Dunlop and Ate setups.

Incidentally, @Vivace, is your Duetto an early ‘67? I have a feeling there was a (fuzzy) line somewhere in 1967 when the went from only using Dunlops to only using Ates, with a period of “whatever we have the most of today” in between, but it’s just a hunch.

Alex
 

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Richard Jemison
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The uprights are totally different. And all the early 105 cars used the smaller bolt spacing like the Dunlops. The wider brake mount spacing occured with later larger ATE brakes.
The brake mounts on a Dunlop system are a separate piece that bolts to the upright
The ATE system has the brake mount cast onto the upright.

The mount (bolt) spacing is larger for the iron ATE calipers. The Aluminum Brembo calipers from the 119 series cars (GTV6/Milano) use the same smaller mount spacing and the common upgrade is to use those with the center spacer removed to narrow them to fit the non-vented rotor width.
And they weigh about 1/2 the weight as the ATE calipers and use similar sized brake pads.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Are the uprights the same on Dunlop and Ate brake cars? The mounting plates for the calipers can not be the same. I thought you need to change the whole spindle assembly if you want Ate brakes. Maybe I am incorrect, who knows.
That’s been my understanding, that they’re different animals, and I see above it’s confirmed - Dunlop or early small Ate. Apparently Supers / sedans and GTs in ‘67 got mostly Ate.

I have uprights, hubs, bearings, calipers, and rotors from a later model 2-liter Spider. New rotors and reman calipers from Centerline, the rest used and repainted.

I don’t know early or late ‘67 - I’ll check the VIN if that’s a help.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
What I said about sedans and GTs might be wrong - I think most of them got boosters, but either kind of brakes.
 

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Are you sure that is the correct number? I think it should have 6 digits. Check the Duettoregister by Wille R, 1967 started with 663xxx.
My car is a 1966, built on August 1st, 1966 and sold on August 23rd in Pescara, Italy. It's number starts with 661xxx. If your data is correct, there is a problem with Alfa production data.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Whoop....664164. I'm in Wille's register somewhere.
 

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(Fact check only, from earlier threads:)
Dunlops 3.5” mount spacing. I measured mine.
Early Ate 3”
Late Ate 3.5”
Alloy Brembos (GTV6, Milano) 3”.
Rube.
(I get that ref now, Richard. Better late than never.)
 
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