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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,

My '69 1300 Junior's engine is in need of a re-build. I'm in posession of a nice stock 2L engine and have been toying with the idea of swapping in the 2L as a 'daily driver' engine. I intend to re-build the original 1300, but I just might leave the 2L in the car for more power.

I have a few questions for the group. To do this swap, I know that the engine will fit OK, but I wonder if my transmission will bolt up to it. I have a hydraulic clutch, so that part isn't a problem. I will probably use my 1300's Webers on the 2L, so throttle linkages should be OK too. I guess I'll have to use the 2L exhaust manifold, because the block is a bit taller.

Any other issues I should think about? Your help would be appreciated.

Cheers,
 

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Trained (ex)Professional, , 1953-2018 RIP,
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You ask such good questions!;)
If Alfa standardized flywheels and bellhousings for all the 105 hydraulic clutches, I'd say yes, a 2l will fit. I'll try to "borrow" a hydraulic version 1300 parts book and find out.
I think in the difference in the exhaust is the front pipe and not the manifold. I'll try to find that out too.
 

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1300 Daily Driver

Alex,

I have been wondering if you've had any problem keeping up with all the SUVs in daily traffic with a 1300. I think the 2L would be a nice swap for the daily drive.

Garrett
 

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I thought the heads were taller on the 1750-2000?
Any issues with the hood closing properly?
 

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2 liter conversion

i am currently doing the same thing on my junior. before i was toying with the idea of a 1600 but when the head wind slowed my car down one night, i definately said a 2 liter is going in cuz a 1600 would be better but not by much. on my car, i have hte hydraulic floor pedals. my transmission has the closed bottom bell housing. only thing i have to change is the flywheel and starter. i am upgrading to a later model spider. when changing carbs, make sure you re-jet it cuz it's gonnabe different. everything else in the compartment should clear, all the cars are the same. good luck.

ps: one thing you might wanna change is the 5th gear. gt juniors come with .85 5th gears which give you high revs on the freeway. i am changing mine over to a .79 (standard 5th gear) and adding a 4:10 limited slip. i plan on using it on the freeway more than anywhere else and would prefer to not get a headache everytime i go somewhere and save gas too!
 

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Don't know if the heads are different heights but the blocks definately are. However, since the round-tails were also fitted with 1750s, which are the same overall height as the 2l, I don't see any hood clearance problems.
 

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the blocks on the 2300 are shorter because of the smaller stroke. i tried putting k&n filters on my 1300 but it did not work. it now will with the 2000 but who knows, i might go ahead and make an aluminum airbox for it instead cuz that didnt fir with the 1300 either.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Hi all!

Thanks for all of your answers and input. I am pretty handy with a wrench and I have some great volunteer mechanics, including my guru, Skip Patnode (some of you may know him) who will give me a hand with the swap.

To answer some of your questions:

1. No, actually the 1300 with the shorter gearing can still take me up to about 100mph, but it won't win any drag races! I drive very 'spiritedly' though, so I don't really have any speed problems (always shift beyond the redline! :D)

2. If you look at the blocks, they seem the same...the real difference is in the heads...they are a bit taller. As for clearance with the hood, that should not be a problem as all 105 and 115 Spiders share the same cross-members, hoods and motor mounts.

3. The exhaust manifold is bolted to the head, and therefore is a bit longer in the upper-most portion. Nevertheless, I have a donor manifold to use.

4. The only real question is whether I should throw in a LSD from a late-model GTV (I have one) and maybe also a later transmission, although I DO like the idea of keeping the 1300's gear ratios (quicker!). I don't often drive on highways with her, as I prefer the back roads! :D

Ciao,
 

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Alex Csank said:

2. If you look at the blocks, they seem the same...the real difference is in the heads...they are a bit taller. As for clearance with the hood, that should not be a problem as all 105 and 115 Spiders share the same cross-members, hoods and motor mounts.
I know that the 1750 and 2l heads are 4.410" tall. Don't know what the height of the 1300 and 1600 heads are. But you can visually see the block height differences. Notice that on the 1300, the top of the waterpump is about even with the deck. On the longer stroke 1750s and 2ls, the deck is about 25mm above the waterpump.
Again, I'll try to check some part numbers. The manifold for 1 & 4 cylinders on a 1750 & 2l starts off with 105.02 which is not specific to any size engine.
 

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1300 -> 2000 conversion

I have a 2-L in my '69 spider which, I believe, is dimensionally identical to your Jr. You won't have any problem with it fitting the engine compartment but check the downpipe on the exhaust for clearance under the peddle box.

When I did the swap in the spider, I found the 4.56 rearend to be a bit busy for street driving so in went a 4:10 LS. With the 4.10 you won't have to shift twice just to get across an intersection.

As for 5th gear, I'd go with the .79 rather than the .86. I had a .86 in my Jr. Z when it was powered by a 1300. It was necessary for the hills. While the 1300 gets up to speed eventually, 1/4 mi times are best measured with a calendar. The 2-L will pull the higher gear easily on the street.

Don't get me wrong, driving a 1300 is great fun. You can race everyone else on the road and they never even know you're doing. They all pull away from you at the lights but in the twisties you can have them if you work for it.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks all! That's very helpful. I've been thinking that what I might do is drop the transmission, LSD rear and engine from a carbed '73 GTV into her. That ought to give her some gusto...huh?

I guess the only real issue I might face that way will be the exhaust manifold clearnce of my floor-mounted pedal box. Anyone know anything about that?

Cheers,
 

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The usual vendors list different front pipes if the car has standing pedals or floor pedals. Don't know the what difference is though. I think your right Alex that it has something to do with the pedal box or possibly the front hanger. But, years ago I installed a 2l into a GT Junior (the car with the icicles) and used a hanging pedal front pipe. There were no clearance problems.
FWIW, I looked at an older Ricambi catalog and they list the exhaust manifolds as being the same from the 1300 thru the 2l 105s.
 

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I'm sure the manifold (really the first section of the exhaust (2 into 1)) could be made to fit if you couldn't find the right one. I had an full Ansa set up from a 71 GTV (suspended) that I installed in my 69 GTV (floor). They had to bend the pipe a little to get around the pedal box, but it worked!

Ken
 

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Hello Bruce,

I'm having problems adapting my 2liter with a 131 tooth flywheel to my 69 1750 bell housing-gearbox. On your 2.0 conversion, did you use change your 1750 bellhousing and gearbox to a later 2.0 type?

get hung up on the conversion

davbert

Bruce Colby said:
I have a 2-L in my '69 spider which, I believe, is dimensionally identical to your Jr. You won't have any problem with it fitting the engine compartment but check the downpipe on the exhaust for clearance under the peddle box.

When I did the swap in the spider, I found the 4.56 rearend to be a bit busy for street driving so in went a 4:10 LS. With the 4.10 you won't have to shift twice just to get across an intersection.

As for 5th gear, I'd go with the .79 rather than the .86. I had a .86 in my Jr. Z when it was powered by a 1300. It was necessary for the hills. While the 1300 gets up to speed eventually, 1/4 mi times are best measured with a calendar. The 2-L will pull the higher gear easily on the street.

Don't get me wrong, driving a 1300 is great fun. You can race everyone else on the road and they never even know you're doing. They all pull away from you at the lights but in the twisties you can have them if you work for it.
 

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I have a 2L in my duetto. Did have a clearence problem with the exhaust pipe and the pedal box. A 1/4" aluminum spacer under the right hand mount tilted the engine just enough for clearance. I also installed a close ratio gearbox. 1st is 2:56, second is 1:98, third is 1:70. I left 4th and fifth as standard. Rear end is a 410 LSD. The difference is very noticable.
 

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davebert,

I’ve been through a bunch of engine swaps and everyone involved some sort of fabrication and/or parts swapping to get the job done. I’ll contact you off-line with a recommendation.
 
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