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Did you put the glass in with the window trim installed or install it later? I've always inexpertly assumed that putting the gasket in and then installing the trim isn't advisable because of the possibility of bent, unobtanium trim.
That's what I've always been told as well. So I would add to Andrew's list of steps:

4.5 Reinstall trim into gasket
5. Put new gasket & cleaned-up trim on glass.....

180OUT said:
Scott moves to town with his Italian restored Jr. and his shop had installed the trim after fitting the gasket . . .
After fitting the gasket to the glass but before installing that assembly into the car's body? In other words, swapping steps 4.5 and 5 above? Yes, that I can believe. But once the glass + gasket are installed into the car, the groove that accepts the trim would be tough to open up enough to force the trim in.
 

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Jay, there's a little tool that functions like a wedge to open up the gasket and allow the trim to be fitted. Yachtman posted a photo of the tool and it looks like something profession al installers would have. I think I've seen one before but didn't know what it was. Perhaps Yachtman can enlighten us? I've been putting off replacing a cracked front windshield . . .
 

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Jay, there's a little tool that functions like a wedge to open up the gasket and allow the trim to be fitted.
So you're saying (or perhaps Yachtsman's saying) that with this magic tool, you can insert the metal trim into the seal after the glass & seal are installed into the body?

If you say so, I'm willing to believe it. But I'm still not getting why you would do it that way, when it's so simple to press the trim into the gasket prior to installing it around the glass. It has to be less traumatic to the fragile trim to do this operation by hand, rather than rely on the specialized tool.
 

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Discussion Starter #205
I wouldn't do that. The trim is very soft and once crazed, you can't uncraze unless you polish the finish off. I can't see a reason to go in that order. We didn't have any trouble. Just my experience.
Andrew
 

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Jay, there's a little tool that functions like a wedge to open up the gasket and allow the trim to be fitted. Yachtman posted a photo of the tool and it looks like something profession al installers would have. I think I've seen one before but didn't know what it was. Perhaps Yachtman can enlighten us? I've been putting off replacing a cracked front windshield . . .
Wrong way to install it. Alfa Romeo and every other car manufacturer install the trim BEFORE the window is installed. This tool is to save $'s when you don't want to pull the windscreen, but if you are installing new rubber seal or your current windscreen is destined for the rubbish bin, you have to remove it anyway.

Bit like removing a VW Golf Mk4 gearbox without removing the suspension cross member. It can be done by angling this and that (youtube videos have even been made), cursing, etc., but to remove that suspension cross member only requires removing 4 large bolts and 4 small ones (to let the steering rack go); its a ten minute job, and then the gearbox comes out ridiculously easy.
Pete
 

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Discussion Starter #208
Ian, funny choice of words on my part sure; if you're inclined as a Freudian, everything looks like a [fill in the blank]. I had a Freudian lit professor at Cal and it was very tiresome. He knew only one note.
I wouldn't take the car onto the freeway, for instance, what I was getting at.
More tinkering today, trying some kerosene in #1. Might take ages to free up the rings, if at all. Leaks a good amount of oil too, including right out the join on the pan bottom. I'm talking to the owner about what he wants to do. He bought this car for probably not much 10 years ago. I'm doing this see-how-it-is work for almost nothing, but to do an engine and brake rebuild, I need to get paid. It may not make sense for him or me. We'll see.

Andrew
 

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Discussion Starter #209
It's not the point of this thread to cover other than my green Super, but what the heck. The red car is up and running. The owner and I discussed at length; #1 cylinder has not yet joined in much, continues to have about 50 lbs compression. It is producing power, barely. It eventually fouls the plug. But it runs well enough to drive. So before he and I agreed to spend big time and money on an engine rebuild, I talked him into making the car safe to drive first, see what he thinks of it. Because he's never really driven it. So over the last two weeks I did brakes, front end, tires, to get it operable and safe enough for him to piddle around the Peninsula and get a feel for it.

Rebuilt all that stuff, new calipers, hoses, pads, MC, and I rebuilt the booster with a Classic Alfa kit. All new tie rod ends, upper ball joints, caster rods. Bottom piece of the oil pan, which barely kept the oil in, I removed, to discover it had no gasket, no sealer, and a bunch of big gouges in the sealing surface. Had to sell him a new pan bottom, and now the engine retains its oil. Got the car on the road yesterday, it drives well. Brakes came together on the first try. Drove it around, works well. So I'm going to give it back to him to drive around, enjoy, get used to it. If #1 doesn't eventually sort itself out we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

Supers are so great, let them sit for 10-20 years, do some basic maintenance and they're wonderful to drive again. Here it is comparing notes with my car.

Andrew
 

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Andrew, Crysler has an aerosol spray that is designed to help rings re-seat after the cylinder walls have become glazed. You can get it at the parts counter (can't remember the exact name). Anyway, a friend tired it on an engine with low compression and, quite surprisingly, it worked. I had similar results on one cylinder that wasn't up to snuff. Sure, it's mouse-milk but it's not expensive and might be worth a try.
 

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Discussion Starter #211
Wow, thanks, will check. I put in Marvel Mystery Oil and some kerosene, so far merely to oily effect.
Larry from APE says they often see engines that have sat come up after use. So far this one's pig-headed.
Andrew
 

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I attached some tubing to the spray nozzle so I could spray directly into the carb. That worked a lot better.
 

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Discussion Starter #213
The red Super went home, owner got it registered, is going to drive it.

My car, took to Berkeley Cars n Coffee yesterday. Three Giulia sedans, one Berlina, a Fulvia GT, and a Ferrari F40 (yawn). Not a bad showing at all.
My car hanging out with birds of a feather. The blue Berlina used to be mine but at some point they all were.
Andrew
 

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Discussion Starter #215
Europa Cars at Sixth/Gilman. Good, not great, but they, within limits, can work to varying standards depending on what you want and how much you pay. They did a white 356 last year that was stunning, but would have been three or four times what I paid for my paint. All prep and sanding.

Andrew
 

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Europa Cars at Sixth/Gilman. Good, not great, but they, within limits, can work to varying standards depending on what you want and how much you pay. They did a white 356 last year that was stunning, but would have been three or four times what I paid for my paint. All prep and sanding.

Andrew[/QUOTE

How do you categorize a "good" and a "great" paint job?

How do approach a shop with your requirements?

Have you figured out what is it that defines whether a shop is capable of producing a "great" paint job?

My experience is that the amount paid for the bodywork/paint has been a weak determinate of the quality of the job. I'm referring to shops in southern California.

Thanks,
 

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Discussion Starter #217
I have had this shop do two jobs in 20 years. Had three jobs at a much higher level place in Hayward over past five years. This job was $4000, a Berlina they did for me 20 years ago was paint only, $1200. The Hayward shop, Whipple Auto Body, did a Tiger, Giulietta, Duetto, for $15,000-18,000 each, lots of body work and prep. Those were very good jobs.

Hard to say how to judge. Look at their work and talk to them about what you want. Find jobs they've done that have aged at least six months, talk to owners about the experience. Paint shrinks a lot over time, so poor prep may not show up for some time. It's amazing how sanding marks "bloom" over the weeks and months. With Whipple, I'd seen other good jobs from them so was pretty convinced in advance. Also, they'd been around a long time. Body shops come and go, change owners, etc. It's a screwy industry with seeming volatility of owners and workers and perhaps small margins? I don't know.

This shop, Europa, I've seen good work and poor depending I guess on what the customer wanted and was willing to pay for. But my Super lives outside, I don't wash it, etc., so it's silly for me to pay for paint that I can't maintain. The cars Whipple did all live inside, so I can keep them nicer.

Andrew
 

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Discussion Starter #219
Bit of a gratuitous shot here. My driveway yesterday, one of each, no duplicates!
Brownie II, a new-to-me 78 Spider in bruno, friend Sean's 74 GTV for an engine rebuild, my Super, my Junior Z, not yet put away after the All-Italian show.

Brownie II found me. A guy at a detail shop knows I have Alfas, asked if I was interested in his car. I said sure I'd be happy to consider. I looked at it in West Oakland Thursday, towed it home Saturday. His dad bought it new at Griswold, he's had it since 1988. It's been sitting mostly since 2013, but they took care of it and it's a pretty nice car beyond the faded paint. Put gas and battery in, fired on the first turn of the key and I drove it around the block. Now checking what needs doing but it shouldn't be too hard to bring back to life. It has its original Alfa "banjo" cat, so that's got to be changed if I have any hope of passing smog.

Andrew
 

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Discussion Starter #220
I realize I'm straying from the original intent of this thread. But it's sort of my potpourri thread.
Here's Brownie II in profile. Not a bad car at all. Look at that top, and the leather seats are excellent. Yes that L fender bottom has some craters. That's the only spot on the car I see. Bay Area from new, though not garaged for some years.
As with many 105/115 cars, Thing One is the driveshaft. Was under the car on the weekend, oh boy, the donut. Got the driveshaft out yesterday (requires shifting the cat and its heat shield out of the way) and here's the flayed donut and splayed center bearing rubber. They's no good! Will pursue fixes today.
Andrew
 

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