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Discussion Starter #1
This car will only start if it is cold when you press the gas pedal to the floor and hold it. Otherwise, it just cranks over on the starter like there is no spark or no gas.
Once started, it acts like it was flooded as it takes a minute to smooth out and run on all 4 cylinders smoothly. Gray smoke comes out the back once it starts.
If it is warmed up, it starts and idles fine.
Once you get it started and cleared out, it runs perfectly and idles as it should.
No water in the oil nor oil in the radiator.
Fuel pumps both run. injectors and CSI replaced a few months ago and car has been fine.
TPS switch works
Ideas? Thanks
 

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First step would be to confirm the presence or absence of spark &/or fuel. I would also measure system voltage. With everything off a fully charged battery should show ~ 12.6V. 12.3V is 1/2 to 3/4 charged. It can sound like it is cranking over with vigor but if the voltage drops below ~ 10.5 the computers will not power on and send the make spark/squirt fuel signals. Best is to connect a voltmeter directly to the battery, a dash gauge (if you have one) is not usually wired for this test.

The other item in the Cold Start System (CSS) is the ThermoTime Switch (TTS). The specs for it are in the L-jet Diagnosis page - link is in my signature. The CSS is a stand-alone system - not under computer control. A faulty TTS will prevent the Cold Start Injector (CSI) from getting power & squirting fuel during cold starts - or - it could be telling the CSI to squirt when it should not. Holding the gas pedal to the floor while cranking is supposed to tell the computer the engine has flooded and thus not to squirt fuel.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
First step would be to confirm the presence or absence of spark &/or fuel. I would also measure system voltage. With everything off a fully charged battery should show ~ 12.6V. 12.3V is 1/2 to 3/4 charged. It can sound like it is cranking over with vigor but if the voltage drops below ~ 10.5 the computers will not power on and send the make spark/squirt fuel signals. Best is to connect a voltmeter directly to the battery, a dash gauge (if you have one) is not usually wired for this test.

The other item in the Cold Start System (CSS) is the ThermoTime Switch (TTS). The specs for it are in the L-jet Diagnosis page - link is in my signature. The CSS is a stand-alone system - not under computer control. A faulty TTS will prevent the Cold Start Injector (CSI) from getting power & squirting fuel during cold starts - or - it could be telling the CSI to squirt when it should not. Holding the gas pedal to the floor while cranking is supposed to tell the computer the engine has flooded and thus not to squirt fuel.
Thanks Eric
I kind of know most of this and am being lazy and hoping for a quick magical answer. :LOL:
I did not know that having it floored told the computer it was flooded but that makes sense thinking about it. Good to know!
I will look into all of this tomorrow time permitting. Just a lot on my plate right now and been out of town with work.
The strange thing is that all of this started after I replaced a power window switch. I could not see the connection between the two.
Thanks again
 

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Bullet fuses? The bullet type are somehow able to look OK but not allow electrons to pass. The aluminum strip ones are the worst, the brass ones are better. The contacts in the fuse box can be another weak point. Clean them with a small brass brush and squeeze the contacts together to ensure the fuses are held tightly.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Bullet fuses? The bullet type are somehow able to look OK but not allow electrons to pass. The aluminum strip ones are the worst, the brass ones are better. The contacts in the fuse box can be another weak point. Clean them with a small brass brush and squeeze the contacts together to ensure the fuses are held tightly.
Agreed. I usually try to replace the aluminum ones for that reason. I will add that to my checks.
Thanks
 

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you obviously have spark or it wouldn't run at all.

if it were mine, I'd remove a plug after your failed cold start attempts (but no gas pedal!)
is it wet, as in flooded out wet?

Then I'd remove the (new) CSI and see if it sprays when cold.
If the new CSI is not spraying turn to the TTS

(but, you know all this basic stuff, tbh!....:))
 

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Discussion Starter #7
you obviously have spark or it wouldn't run at all.

if it were mine, I'd remove a plug after your failed cold start attempts (but no gas pedal!)
is it wet, as in flooded out wet?

Then I'd remove the (new) CSI and see if it sprays when cold.
If the new CSI is not spraying turn to the TTS

(but, you know all this basic stuff, tbh!....:))
True but having to go out of town right after this started makes it impossible to do any testing yet.
Guess I am just impatient.😜
 

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Discussion Starter #8
True but having to go out of town right after this started makes it impossible to do any testing yet.
Guess I am just impatient.😜
Okay, CSI is spraying. Getting spark to plugs. Still won’t start cold unless gas pedal is floored and held. It tried to start when I had the CSI pulled out for testing which to me indicates that it needs more air.
Pulled spark plugs. Not wet.
put battery on a charger overnight but it seems to me that if it were a voltage issue, it would not start when gas pedal is floored.
Ideas please.
 

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so you have spark, plugs are not wet, CSI is spraying normally....so it isn't getting flooded.

odd :ROFLMAO:
....it should start

since you are flooring the gas pedal, and the only thing that 'movement' is connected to, is the TPS, perhaps TPS has gone out of adjustment?
(just throwing ideas out there)
 

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Okay, CSI is spraying. Getting spark to plugs. Still won’t start cold unless gas pedal is floored and held. It tried to start when I had the CSI pulled out for testing which to me indicates that it needs more air.
Pulled spark plugs. Not wet.
put battery on a charger overnight but it seems to me that if it were a voltage issue, it would not start when gas pedal is floored.
Ideas please.
Can you take a cell phone video and upload it? It sometimes helps to hear how the engine is turning over and running. In my experience, my issues were: TTS, but it still started after long cranking. mine failed when hot. Bosch connectors to the 2 temp sensors. They both had leads that were pushed back in just a little into the plug. Ignition switch- it was dropping a ton of voltage, even after I installed a start relay. Coil: I bought a coil from Napa autoparts, trusting the guy at the counter to give me the right coil. He didn't. It wasn't for electronic ignition at all, the primarys measured out at 3ohms. This was the last piece to my puzzle- car was cutting out at higher RPMs or under load if I had accesories on. It had gotten better once I replaced the ignition switch, but it still cut out a little if I had everything on (lights, wipers, heater fan). And, it still took a while to start. Once I figured out the coil properties of the correct coil, I picked up an equivalent and after years, the car finally starts fast.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
so you have spark, plugs are not wet, CSI is spraying normally....so it isn't getting flooded.

odd :ROFLMAO:
....it should start

since you are flooring the gas pedal, and the only thing that 'movement' is connected to, is the TPS, perhaps TPS has gone out of adjustment?
(just throwing ideas out there)
Good idea but I forgot to mention that I did check it. Signals good to the ECU for fully closed and fully open. I have a tester for the Bosch systems but so far, it has revealed nothing.🙁
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Can you take a cell phone video and upload it? It sometimes helps to hear how the engine is turning over and running. In my experience, my issues were: TTS, but it still started after long cranking. mine failed when hot. Bosch connectors to the 2 temp sensors. They both had leads that were pushed back in just a little into the plug. Ignition switch- it was dropping a ton of voltage, even after I installed a start relay. Coil: I bought a coil from Napa autoparts, trusting the guy at the counter to give me the right coil. He didn't. It wasn't for electronic ignition at all, the primarys measured out at 3ohms. This was the last piece to my puzzle- car was cutting out at higher RPMs or under load if I had accesories on. It had gotten better once I replaced the ignition switch, but it still cut out a little if I had everything on (lights, wipers, heater fan). And, it still took a while to start. Once I figured out the coil properties of the correct coil, I picked up an equivalent and after years, the car finally starts fast.
I could but all it sounds like is a starter turning over the engine with no spark or gas.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
So, I guess you guys are out of ideas like me?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Could it have something to do with the AAV or maybe the electrical connection at the AFM has become fouled?
Don’t think so but will check. Thanks
 

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Whats your fuel pressure?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Whats your fuel pressure?
Jim, I do not know as I have no gauge on it. I thought that was not the issue since once the car has started and warmed up, I can drive it as hard as I want and it pulls strong. Also, I jumped out the fuel pumps to get them to run constantly as a test and that made no difference. Does that make sense to you or should I still check it somehow?
Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #18
The latest is that i replaced the TTS with another. Both ohmed at 36 ohms and it made no difference.
Also, with wiring connector at the CSI disconnected, it acted like it wanted to fire.
I also found out the I do not have to floor it. I can just hold the pedal down a little and get it to start but not on all cylinders. It eventually fires on all after a few seconds
 

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You mentioned that once started, it idles and runs okay. If you've checked the likely culprits, then what's left is checking the unlikely ones. Here's a trick I use when helping others with troubleshooting: Once the engine is warmed up and at idle, pull the dipstick loose (to break the seal at the top of the tube)...you should lose about 300 RPM of idle speed. If not, you have an air leak somewhere. Engine start is a critical moment for the FI system, and the L-Jetronic is very intolerant of any unmetered air in the system.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
You mentioned that once started, it idles and runs okay. If you've checked the likely culprits, then what's left is checking the unlikely ones. Here's a trick I use when helping others with troubleshooting: Once the engine is warmed up and at idle, pull the dipstick loose (to break the seal at the top of the tube)...you should lose about 300 RPM of idle speed. If not, you have an air leak somewhere. Engine start is a critical moment for the FI system, and the L-Jetronic is very intolerant of any unmetered air in the system.
Agreed and i have already done that. You can immediately tell the difference. It doesn't like that air infiltration.
Thanks
 
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