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Discussion Starter #1
Hi All-

I newly returned to the Alfa world after a 8 year break. I'm happy to finally be an owner again.

I bought an 84 spider that needed a head gasket replacement...thanks to this forum I felt like it was a task I could handle. Today while taking the intake Plenum off in anticipation of changing the motor mounts while I'm at it I found this little bugger lodged in the one rubber connecting hose. Any idea where its from or how the heck it found its way into this spot? I'm just really happy it got stuck where it did before it got sucked into the valve area...
 

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That thing looks like the dipstick holder that mounts to the cam cover. If I'm right, the only way I could see that thing ending up there is a game of hide and seek.
 

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Nice pick up Mike!

Now how in the heck did that get there?

Has to be a good story.

Vin
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I knew you guys would figure it out...

The best guess I have is that it accidentally got tosses in the air intake hose last time someone had the can cover off. Must be quite a wind tunnel in there to get past the throttle. No sign of damage other than the piece being pretty deformed.

Can you tell me the size socket I need to rotate the crank...my set only goes up to 30 and I can see in there to tell how much bigger I need to buy.

Thanks again for the help!
 

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Should be 36mm.

Are you trying to remove the nut or just turn the engine?

If removing, check to see if there is a lock tab still present.

Good luck.

Vin
 

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Put the car in third gear and rotate the engine to Punto by grasping the left front tire and rolling the car forward. The car moves easily this way and you can observe the timing marks on the crank pulley from this position.
I cannot fathom how that could possibly have found its way in there unintentionally.
 

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Put the car in third gear and rotate the engine to Punto by grasping the left front tire and rolling the car forward. The car moves easily this way and you can observe the timing marks on the crank pulley from this position.
I cannot fathom how that could possibly have found its way in there unintentionally.
I agree. Someone didn't like someone.

You don't even remove it to take the cam cover off.
 

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Should be 36mm.

Are you trying to remove the nut or just turn the engine?

If removing, check to see if there is a lock tab still present.

Good luck.

Vin
Or 1 7/16 inch socket will work also.
 

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I have not been with the Alfa "crowd" for long and the guys/gals on this information board rock. I would put five bucks the factory has more than one jackass on the assembly line doing this sort of nonsense. Our "Sandy Spider" upon disassembly had a ground strap in the #1 cylinder. Only a portion of the eyelet was in the combustion chamber, but I have seen at least several other areas of "lack in quality control"
 

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I have not been with the Alfa "crowd" for long and the guys/gals on this information board rock. I would put five bucks the factory has more than one jackass on the assembly line doing this sort of nonsense. Our "Sandy Spider" upon disassembly had a ground strap in the #1 cylinder. Only a portion of the eyelet was in the combustion chamber, but I have seen at least several other areas of "lack in quality control"
That wasn't done at the factory. You can see the ring around the bracket were the rubber grommet keep it clean from the oil residue.

As far as your ground strap that probably happened when a head gasket was done to the car at some point in its life.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Nice...so you think it may have been a time bomb that was placed and never wet off? Maybe some job security for future work by a mechanic...

It was a 36mm...I tried rolling the wheels with it up on stands in 5th...assumed the rear wheels...no rotation. I grabbed the socket and all is well. Well...not really. Now I need to pursued the head to pop free.
 

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Well...not really. Now I need to pursued the head to pop free.
The easiest way I have found to persuade the head to pop free is using the rope trick.

1. Set the engine to TDC (top dead centre). This will place #1 and #4 piston at their highest points.
2. Rotate the engine 90 degrees, lowering all pistons to half way.
3. Stuff as much rope as you can, the yellow kind that you find everywhere, into pistons #1 through the spark plug holes.
4. Rotate the engine using the 36mm nut on the crank or roll the car. I use the front crank nut so I can watch. This will raise the pistons that will raise the rope up against the head and voila! POP!
5. If only the front popped up and repeat with the rope in #4 piston.

IMG_3327.jpg
IMG_3328.jpg

Some effort may be required depending on the "stuckness" of the head.

Dont forget the 2 13mm bolts that go up into the head from below.

IMG_3324.jpg

Good luck,

Vin
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Vin...thanks for the visual...I never thoroughly understood what people were getting at with "the rope trick". Sounds a lot easier then fabricating the tool. I have already removed the cams, etc out in anticipation of having to have the head machined (not sure if it needs it yet but the thread I was following had them out so I followed it to the "T"). Should I re-install them to perform the rope trick?
 

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Cams are not needed.

As you can see in my picture the chain is not installed, therefore the cams don't move.

Good luck,

Vin
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Cams are not needed.

As you can see in my picture the chain is not installed, therefore the cams don't move.

Good luck,

Vin
Thanks...just wanted to make sure that having the journals, cams and buckets out was ok...otherwise I would put them back in. I am not completely aware of what is going on in the valve area so I didn't want to assume it was OK and end up with valves shooting out all over the garage...try not to laugh if that is a completely absurd notion...I'll get better with time. I can't believe how much I have learned already.

Not being all that knowledgeable about engines and timing (yet) I was hoping to keep everything intact...if i rotate the crank with the cams out won;t I need to get that crank back to line up with the cams? I know I saw something about the indicator arrow on the water pump but I took that out to replace it...should I install the new one and make sure the arrow is in the right place before I try the rope trick.

Thanks in advance for dealing with my "greenishness"
 

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Thanks...just wanted to make sure that having the journals, cams and buckets out was ok...otherwise I would put them back in. I am not completely aware of what is going on in the valve area so I didn't want to assume it was OK and end up with valves shooting out all over the garage...try not to laugh if that is a completely absurd notion...I'll get better with time. I can't believe how much I have learned already.

Not being all that knowledgeable about engines and timing (yet) I was hoping to keep everything intact...if i rotate the crank with the cams out won;t I need to get that crank back to line up with the cams? I know I saw something about the indicator arrow on the water pump but I took that out to replace it...should I install the new one and make sure the arrow is in the right place before I try the rope trick.

Thanks in advance for dealing with my "greenishness"
Im not a mechanic but will try to explain the way I see it.

The valves have some pretty heavy duty springs (2, one inside the other) at the top that are constantly pushing the valves up. When the cams turn, the lobes push them down. As the cam rotates, the springs push them up again and so on.

When you remove the cams, the springs push all the valves up and it looks like this.

IMG_2981.jpg

So now imagine the rope pushing up on this and therefore no damage will be done.

Since you removed the cams, you are going to learn how to time them anyways, so rotating the crank now doesnt matter as you will have to do it anyways.

Timing the cams takes some learning but I am sure you can do it.

Good luck,

Vin
 

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I know I saw something about the indicator arrow on the water pump but I took that out to replace it...should I install the new one and make sure the arrow is in the right place before I try the rope trick.

Thanks in advance for dealing with my "greenishness"
Yes, replace that pointer first.

Happy to help. Everyone has to learn for the first time from somewhere / someone.

I have said it before, but this is a great community to be a part of.

Good luck,

Vin
 

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Not being all that knowledgeable about engines and timing (yet) I was hoping to keep everything intact...
Ok, if you want to learn timing before you get to that point, Here is my thread that shows you timing the cams starting at post 191 ending at 206.

The only difference is that my TDC timing mark is on the front pulley and yours is the "P" mark. The "P" stands for Punto, Italian for "the Point".

Good luck,

Vin
 
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