[alfasrule]

Hey I'm Mr. NO Spark! Well I got me Spark back. Now it starts and dies. There is all new stuff Both Pumps are running. No tick by the injectors.
I got a 280 000 206 Jetronic box in the car. I got a 280 000 221 in me parts car. I need a 206 to eliminate the box as the problem. Does anyone have one? Thanks for the NO Spark help. It was a flywheel sensor.

 

[bianchi2]

i have a 400-003 in my 84 spider i just removed.. worked great,i just went to a bmw type dizzy system

 

[ghnl]

Confirm that the drive relay is functioning before replacing the computer. There is a 'start' signal via the ignition switch (when the key is turned to 'start') that bypasses the drive relay. This powers on the fuel pumps during cranking. Once the engine starts a tachymetric signal from the coil to the drive relay keeps the fuel pumps powered up. This functions as a safety device - if the engine stalls the pumps stop too (prevents feeding fuel on a fire in the event of a crash). If either the tachymetric signal is lacking (no ignition pulses or faulty sense wire) or the drive relay itself is faulty the pumps will not stay on when the key is released to 'run'. The engine will start then run out of fuel in 2 seconds.

 

[papajam]

Have you checked for injector pulse with a noid light? If there's a pulse, the fuel ECU is (basically) okay. If no pulse, check for power at injector connector with the key on (red wire). Is there power? If no power, the injector power supply circuit needs to be diagnosed. If there is injector power, your spare 221 ECU should be able to be used for testing purposes since the main difference between the 221 and the original 206 is that the 221 has circuitry for an altitude compensation device, the 206 does not.

 

[alfasrule]

Update!! Changed relays and box no difference. I believe I'm missing the coil signal. I bypassed my kill switch and when I measure there I get the 12v for a second and then it goes. I'm going to the store to get a tester. papajam I'd like a wire diagram for this car. I already donate to alfabb, but if you want an additional donation Please advise. I send a check to samtec every year and I'm due so I can add to it if you wish. 82 spider
Thanks for the help!! The diagrams I have are vague!!!

 

[papajam]

Please PM me your email address for the diagrams.

Just for grins, you could try this test. Remove the fuelpump relay and jump terminals 30 & 87 in the relay socket. The fuelpumps should be running. Does the engine start and run now?

 

[alfasrule]

Update!! Brought out me Scope Since I'm an engineer!!! Checked all the pulses, Even the relay comes on but only for a second or 2. There are pulses to all 4 injectors. Signal from coil is good. I tried another air flow meter as well. If there is any other suggestion Please advise. Papajam's diagrams are awesome and very accurate!!

 

[ghnl]

There is a signal wire from the coil to the drive relay. IIRC, it has black outer insulation covering a braided wire sheilding and a white? or yellow? insulation covered wire inside that. The braided wire gets grounded, the inner wire sends the 'tachymetric' signal from the coil to the drive relay. If that signal wire is faulty/missing the drive relay will not know the engine is running and it will not send power to the fuel pumps. The engine could start and run for 1-2 seconds becuase there is a 'start' signal via the ignition switch's 'start' circuit that bypasses the drive relay. Then, once residual fuel pressure drop, the engine dies.

The sketch below is from one of Papajam's wire diagrams. It appears the signal wire attaches at terminal 31B.

 

[papajam]

One of the tests over the weekend was to bypass the fuelpump relay. Engine starts and dies. This test rules out the relay dropping out because of a tach signal loss (but it doesn't guaranty a good tach signal).

Question on injector pulses when the engine starts and dies;
Do the pulses stop then the engine dies or do the pulses continue while the engine dies.

Eric,
Ya gotta lose that old fuelpump wiring diagram; I'm embarrassed to look at it. The newer versions are, IMO, far better in that they mimic the actual terminal locations.

 

[ghnl]

Eric,
Ya gotta lose that old fuelpump wiring diagram; I'm embarrassed to look at it. The newer versions are, IMO, far better in that they mimic the actual terminal locations.

OK, OK. It was just a quick cut/n/paste of one of your older diagrams. I will delete it from my files - I wouldn't want to get 'elevated to ignore status'...

 

[alfasrule]

"The pulses continue while the engine dies" It's like I turn the key off!!
The injector as well as the coil signals. Which I measure the coil signal at the relay. I will check to see if the wire is properly insulated, cause it was very noisey. Never had this difficulty before. Also checked power and as it's running the power system is a healthy 13.8 volts. Thanks for all the help.

 

[papajam]

"The pulses continue while the engine dies" It's like I turn the key off!!

This rules out some stuff that does not now need to be tested.

I can think of only a few things that are left;
Insufficient fuel pressure
Clogged/bad injectors
Incorrect injector pulse width (coolant temp sensor, ECU)

Since the engine starts, presumably on the cold start injector, there would appear to be fuel pressure (how much is a question though).

 

[Forzaguy]

I had a similar problem with my '78 Spider. Might want to check if your coil has a ballast resistor. When so equiped, and the ballast resistor fails, the car will start easily and then stop when the key is returned to the run position. I think that modern coils have internal ballast resistors, older had external replaceable ballast resistors.

 

[Tifosi]

L-jets are externally unballasted and use the type of coil you speak of.


Side note:
There is residual wiring from the 'ballast days' in the pre~86 L-jet cars, hence the difference in the ignition switch wiring between pre and post '86 as by 86 the unused bits were dropped.

 

[Forzaguy]

Would it be worth his effort to try a substitute coil or are the internal ballast resistors pretty much bullet proof? Or do I misunderstand?

 

[papajam]

The ballast resistor is a good thought and would have been, given the symptom, the first thing to look at except for;

1) an 82 does not have an external ballast resistor.
2) since the engine starts, the coil is good whether or not it has an internal resistor
3) having an injector pulse while the engine dies means that the fuel ECU is receiving a pulsing signal from the coil. It also means that the flywheel sensors are sending signals to the ignition ECU which is then triggering the coil to fire.

 

[alfasrule]

UPDATE!! First I want to thank you all for the HELP especially Papajam. Well I found out what happened. I didn't check my rail, because I had it serviced and never thought it was the problem, well I was wrong. I make a Bosch injector test tool, worked great, a Bosch Male & Female plug with a light. Put it in series with the connecter & the injector, BLINK BLINK etc. So I went further and make a test fixture with a momentary switch and a 12v power supply on the bench. And tested my Cleaned Injectors and NO CLICK!! I call the vendor where I had the service done and they told me the solution used to verify and test the injectors would gum up if it sits a long time. Well I had the service done in January. So I removed the rail cleaned it again and tested it on the bench and all were clicking so I put everthing back together and it started right up. Well after 17 years I finally can drive my Spider again. Thanks again for the help!!

 

[papajam]

Woo hoo!!

Jolly good show.