Alfa Romeo Forums banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hey all, now that I am driving my 164Q a bit more often, I am getting accustomed to its niggles etc. (I had to wire a relay direct from the battery to get the radio to switch on without the engine running)... Fixed most little things so far but when I was in heavy traffic yesterday for an hour or so and parked - the car wouldn't crank afterwards... I left the bonnet open for 15mins or so in case it was heat related. Eventually it decided to crank and started and ran fine again.

Which relays are directly connected to the starter motor circuit? When I tried to start it I had accessory power (all lights came on dashboard) but there was no noise from the starter motor - no clicking or anything... Makes me feel that power wasn't getting to it (I could be wrong!).

My foglights came to life after replacing the associated relay - maybe this might be a relay issue too?

thanks :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
I experienced the same issue with my 164Q this evening. This time I was just showing the car to a friend. I tried to start the car and the key would turn, but the engine would not start. I noticed a small rectangular red light in the instrument panel above the top of the car diagram blinking once a second or so. The owner's manual stated that this indicates that the antitheft system in active. I do not know how it became active. I did not receive a remote transmitter with the car. The PO told me that he did not get the remote with the vehicle (and he was the original owner). I did notice this light blinking when driving the car a few days ago, but did not think much of it then. After a closing and locking the vehicle and opening and closing the trunk lid a couple of times the car did start. It started like normal with no indication of a problem. I turned the motor off and was able to restart the car two more times without issue. On the third try it would not start again. I can't figure out what is exactly going on. Previously, I had been able to start the car up without an issue about ten times over the last couple of weeks. I'd appreciate any help with this issue. Thanks.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,240 Posts
If it won't crank when hot but will when cold, sounds just like the problem I had with a GTV6. Turns out the firewall ground wire was dirty and loose. Had aux power for radio, etc, but no crank when hot. Once cleaned and tightened, it was never a problem. I would start at the battery, charge it since it also could be a low battery, clean the connections and retighten, then clean and tighten all the grounds in the engine bay you can find. also, check the connectors for the starter power cable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
I have no factory alarm system on mine so it may not be linked to that, it happened to me once before too but when the car was stone cold...

In that instance replacing the battery with another one I have allowed it to start. Symptoms are almost like the ignition switch is failing or one of the relays the power goes through to get to the starter motor (but I don't know which relays are the ones!).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
all good points, thanks Del - my battery is a new gel battery that sits on 14 volts with headlights on so I think that is ok - it could very well be the grounding or connections on the starter motor (forgot to look at those :) ).
thank you :)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
27,379 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
You sound like you're onto something with the factory alarm Steve, thanks for all the info in that thread :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
573 Posts
About that radio issue: wouldn't it be simpler to rewire the radio to the harness?

Mine came with a non-ISO connector on the harness, so I had to find male ISO connectors and blade terminals and find the function of each wire (had no schematics at the time). At the time I left +12V connections in the "always hot" wire.

I don't know if newer cars came with different connectors, but I find it a lot easier to adapt the wiring than running new wires from the trunk. There's just less to do and less to go wrong.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,240 Posts
I stay away from the alarms on my 164's. Not worth the potential trouble it looks like. If I could remove them easily without screwing something up, I would.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Thanks for the info Del, with the radio - my wiring for that was butchered so I had to start from scratch - only three wires needed anyway :)

I may have found an easy solution too - not sure if it will work since I haven't tried but on another 164 forum I'm a member of they suggested using the trigger wire that goes to the starter motor solenoid and putting it into a relay and using 12V straight from the battery to 'be' the power for the solenoid when the key is turned.

That's what I did for my radio, it might work in this case too :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
Steve, I'd like try that wire mod that bypasses the antitheft circuitry. Do you have any pictures or drawings of the mod? My 164 has been starting more times than not lately, but I still would like to try the mod. Thanks.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
27,379 Posts
Steve, I'd like try that wire mod that bypasses the antitheft circuitry. Do you have any pictures or drawings of the mod? My 164 has been starting more times than not lately, but I still would like to try the mod. Thanks.
OK, let's get some more info so verify this info please:

Your car is 164Q 24v 94-95?

Turning key and engine not starting means to you starter does not turn engine over?

Or starter turns engine over but engine does not start?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
Yes, it's a 1995 24v 164Q. Turning the key and engine not starting means the starter does not turn engine over. It is strange. I can turn the key and the engine starts fine. I'll turn the engine off then turn the key again and the engine will not start (starter does not turn engine over). During all of this I see the narrow red light blinking once a second (anti-theft system is active). I wish I knew a way to disable the anti-theft system. Thanks.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
27,379 Posts
Yes, it's a 1995 24v 164Q. Turning the key and engine not starting means the starter does not turn engine over. It is strange. I can turn the key and the engine starts fine. I'll turn the engine off then turn the key again and the engine will not start (starter does not turn engine over). During all of this I see the narrow red light blinking once a second (anti-theft system is active). I wish I knew a way to disable the anti-theft system. Thanks.
I suggest you do what I did on Myron's 95LS and run a new wire from black starter wire coming from ignition switch to purple-black wire going to pin 86 of starter relay.

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/913110-post1.html. Open fuse panel door, locate ignition switch connector, disconnect connector, bend locking blade on black wire, remove black wire from connector. Now locate I10 starter relay in group of relays to right and above ignition switch wiring connector iunder dash (above and right of driver's knee area. relay may have red stripe on it or be just say BOSCH with part number ending in 112.

These pictures are from 91 164B but 94-95 very similiar and relay should be top one in batch and you only need about 6" of wire a female terminal to slip on black wire spade and a wire butt splice to crimp onto purple-black wire at base of relay to attach new wire. Or you can just use a connector to pierce purple-black wire at relay and clamp on new wire.

I just have alligater clip black wire in pix to show you two wires. reconnect connector to switch with black out side connector.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
Yes. I'd like to give that a try. Do you have any pictures or drawings of the mod? If not, that's okay. I'll take a look in the service manual and look in the car at the ignition switch and starter relay and post any questions. Thanks.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
27,379 Posts
Yes. I'd like to give that a try. Do you have any pictures or drawings of the mod? If not, that's okay. I'll take a look in the service manual and look in the car at the ignition switch and starter relay and post any questions. Thanks.
See pix I posted above.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Just an update...
Ran a wire direct from the positive on the battery to my own relay in the engine bay mounted next to the 50amp original and used the trigger wire to let the direct 12V current go straight to the solenoid while cranking - works a treat and cranks A LOT faster now, starts first time easily :)

Thanks everyone for the help :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
Question about adding wire

My 164Q was starting up regularly until the last couple of days and I am now more motivated to incorporate Steve's fix to bypass the anti-theft system. I lowered fuse panel door and found ignition switch connector and the black wire that needs to be removed from connector (red arrow on first pic). I could not find the purple and black wire at the base of the I10 starter relay. I found a purple wire at the base of what I think is the I10 starter relay, but I'm not sure if this is wire that needs to be jumpered to the black wire. I have attached second pic showing 2 relays by the ignition switch connector. I believe the I10 starter relay is the one on the left. Steve: Can you confirm if the purple wire is the correct wire to jumper to the black ignition switch connector wire? Thanks.
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
27,379 Posts
My 164Q was starting up regularly until the last couple of days and I am now more motivated to incorporate Steve's fix to bypass the anti-theft system. I lowered fuse panel door and found ignition switch connector and the black wire that needs to be removed from connector (red arrow on first pic). I could not find the purple and black wire at the base of the I10 starter relay. I found a purple wire at the base of what I think is the I10 starter relay, but I'm not sure if this is wire that needs to be jumpered to the black wire. I have attached second pic showing 2 relays by the ignition switch connector. I believe the I10 starter relay is the one on the left. Steve: Can you confirm if the purple wire is the correct wire to jumper to the black ignition switch connector wire? Thanks.
Yes it is purple wire to pin socket 86 of starter relay holder. The purple-black wire is what should be hooked to that black wire in ignition switch connector.

It goes to anti theft unit and purple wire leaves anti theft unit and goes to I10 relay pin 86.

Guess I need to correct that in write up.
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top