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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I am replacing the starter and can't find my wiring notes (1981 Spider, 2.0, SPICA mono-farfalla FI).

So…
The starter is shown below with 4 connections. This is how I think they should be connected. Please advise if I'm wrong:

(1) Thinner red wire, with metal spade connector, attaches to the ‘S’ bayonet on the solenoid. I suppose the thinner red wire is the one that runs to the alternator.
(2) The BIG red wire, from the battery, attaches to this thick-bolt for heavy current drain during cranking operation.
(3) Black wire, with black plastic spade connector, attaches to the ‘C’ bayonet. The black wire continues on to the ‘Cold Start Solenoid’ on the Spica FI unit (This is the one you temporarily disconnect from the Spica FI unit if the engine is flooded).
(4) Nothing (or Ground Wire?).

The green wire with yellow stripes, bundled with the other 3 (see photo), appears to be the Fuel Low Pressure Warning Light Sensor wire.

As an added bit of GROUND security, would it be OK if I added a thick ground strap wire directly from the Starter (mounting bolts) to the chassis? The old ground strap failed and now the throttle linkage insulation has burned off! I’m also thinking of doing the same thing at the alternator.

Thanks for your help.
 

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I believe that is correct, but you can check if you have a voltmeter with an impedance setting. I believe that the post that gets the smaller red wire(ignition) should have continuity to the post, but if you hook it up using a vise and a battery that will tell you for sure. Don't worry you shouldn't be able to hurt it by hooking it up wrong once for a second, at least I never have.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks. Good advice.

I'm still interested in knowing what the other bolt connector is for. Is that a ground post? :confused:

Obviously the starter will be grounded to its own chassis, and then through the physical bolts holding it to the engine, then via the ground strap back to the negative post on the battery.

Oh well, guess I shouldent overthink this. ;) Curiosity killed the cat. After all, its just a starter. :)
 

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if you are refering to the fairly large red wire whti the ring terminal, it goes to the top bolt connedtion on the solenoid. this wire runs to the rest of the car for power. hooked to the same terminal as the battery lead.
cliff
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks Cliff.

The ring terminal was easy to figure out. The top bolt on the solenoid is the heavy red wire connector.

The large bolt nearest the starter motor, on the solenoid, is a mystery to me. Is that a ground? I need to study the starter-motor rebuild-diagrams when I get home. They show testing procedures on the coils and such, so maybe I can get a clue there.

I would like to add a gi-normous ground to chassis cable somewhere on the starter. The physical mounting bolts are all too short to attach to. I should just get a longer bolt for the bottom-most bolt. :)

The starter is now back in the car, but the top connecting bolt is a real bugger to tighten down because it is so close to the engine block and firewall. I have tried all kinds of odd socket and combo wrenches to get it cinched up. My hands are the size of hams so it is not easy. ;)

The Oil Pressure sending unit and/or throttle cable apparatus on the firewall are in the way. The monofarfalla SPICA intake unit is enormous and makes everything difficult. :( I'll remove the Oil Pressure sending unit tonight and take another stab at it. :eek:
 

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the heavy wire is the battery cable, the other with the ring goes to the same terminal.the bottom terminal goes to the starter, a strap out of the top of the starter. there is nothing else for this terminal. the number 10 or so with a ring is the supply for the rest of the car. a heavy ground to the engine anywhere would be ok, aluminum is a very good conductor.
cliff
 

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Memory tells me that the black wire (from the ignition switch terminal #50) goes to the 'S' terminal and IF the 'C' terminal is used, it is part of the ballast resistor bypass circuit (there's usually a separate ignition switch circuit, terminal #16, for this purpose though). I'll check the diagrams...
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Thanks for the help. :)

It is taking some time to get back in the mechanic game. I was never that good, but I enjoy doing it.

After looking at many, many, photos of other Alfa engine bays, I have never seen one this tight on space. That aluminum suppository is the biggest culprit (After a million-man-hours it might polish up real nice though).

Just looking in there makes me wish I had teeny-tiny hands!
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Papajam,

Are you saying this is how it looks?

The Thick Red wire with the round connector going to the top bolt on the solenoid.

The Thin Red wire going to spade connector C on the solenoid.

The Thin Black wire going to spade connector S on the solenoid.

Sorry I'm so dense. :)
 

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Yes, memory says that is how the thick red and thinner black wire are hooked up. The wiring diagram is inconclusive however. What the diagram did tell me though is that 1980 was the first year for electronic ignition . Therefore, no ballast resistor or resistor bypass circuit. The diagram does NOT show a thin red wire with a female spade at the starter so I'm currently at a loss as to what it's for.
 

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Depending on how thin 'thin' is, it might be the one that heads over to the alternator junction block on the fender. (like what, 12-14 ga I think?)

On the electronic ignition bit, yes there's no external ballast, but rather it's built into the coil itself somehow. (or so I've been told)
 

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from the picture a few back, the heavy red wire with the ring terminal, and the heavier red pattery cable both go to the top bolt on the start solenoid.
cliff
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Overkill is how I like it!

Papajam,
I know you appreciate diagrams so...
I've done this to show all the loose wires in the general area. Not bad for just Microsoft Paint, eh? :)

It looks like the thinner red (with black stripe [Sorry, it was dirty and did not see the black stripe earlier]) wire is to the Oil Pressure sender? :confused:

The windshield washer pump is missing, and the wires just beneath it look like they have been shunted with a straight wire connector. I did not see a load in the wire, unless the wire itself is a load of some kind. :cool:

I have NO idea what the 'T' shaped connector is for. Could this be for the Starter? The starter does not have a 'T' shape connector, so I doubt it. :confused:

The brown wire on the far right seems to be for the coolant temp sender. :cool:

By the way, the coil does have a condenser alongside and is connected to one of the leads. :D

So there are only 2 wires attached to the starter motor? :eek:
 

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Discussion Starter #14
from the picture a few back, the heavy red wire with the ring terminal, and the heavier red pattery cable both go to the top bolt on the start solenoid.
cliff
Cliff,

I don't see the spade connector that goes to the big red battery cable. There are 4 connections on the solenoid.

2 round posts, and 2 spade type connections.

The 'S' connector has 2 spade connectors, the 'C' connector has only one.

Does anyone have any random shots of spider starters with wires attached?

I can try the bench test, but I do not have a vice. I suppose I could try it in location. It is now bolted in (except for that top bolt! Jeez that thing is buried.). :)

Fun fun fun til my wife took my Alfa awaaaaayyyy.... :D
 

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The second/lower "round" bolt connection is not connected, it merely connects the solenoid to the starter motor, so you only have three connections, battery+ (top "round" bolt not connected to solenoid) ignition+ (spade) and cold start (spade) it is grounded to the block by the bolts that hold it in place. Also, hooking a ground strap to any of the afore mentioned connections on the starter will short out the system. The strap should go in as a washer for one of the bolts that holds it in place, it will also help ensure that the motor is grounded to the chassis as well as the starter.
 

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in the second picture of your first posting, there is a red wire with a ring terminal that is the one that connects along with the battery cable to the top bolt on the solenoid.
cliff
 

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Discussion Starter #17
The second/lower "round" bolt connection is not connected, it merely connects the solenoid to the starter motor, so you only have three connections, battery+ (top "round" bolt not connected to solenoid) ignition+ (spade) and cold start (spade) it is grounded to the block by the bolts that hold it in place. Also, hooking a ground strap to any of the afore mentioned connections on the starter will short out the system. The strap should go in as a washer for one of the bolts that holds it in place, it will also help ensure that the motor is grounded to the chassis as well as the starter.
Thanks 5yearplan. I believe I understand what you are saying: :cool:

Second/lower “round” bolt connection on the solenoid is not connected to anything other than the starter motor below. I can see it is as you say. There is a large wire from the motor below to the lower “round” bolt. It is the main electrical positive lead to the motor. So, if I had tried to hook a ground there I would have been inadvertently welding! OK. :eek:

Fat Red wire with round connector is attached to the top “round” bolt connection on the solenoid as the main positive+ power lead from the battery. ;)

The ground strap I want to install on the starter mounting bolt, as a washer type installation, will be a good ground for the engine block and starter. That is, as long as I can find a suitable location on the chassis for the other end (as an added belt and suspenders overkill idea, I will be adding a second ground strap on a mounting bolt for the alternator). My car’s ground strap failed earlier and fried the throttle cable insulation, NICE! :rolleyes:

The black ‘Cold Start Solenoid’ wire is actually the ‘Starter Motor’ switch wire as well? It would seem so.

The only time the cold start solenoid would be needed, would be during the engine cranking operation. Thus, this wire would only be energized when you turn the key all the way over to crank the engine. I’m sold. :D

The only question remaining is it the ‘C’ or ‘S’ spade on the starter solenoid? Papajam thinks it’s the ‘S’ spade. I saw a document talking about the ‘C’ spade on the solenoid. Hmmmm…
 

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The only question remaining is it the ‘C’ or ‘S’ spade on the starter solenoid? Papajam thinks it’s the ‘S’ spade. I saw a document talking about the ‘C’ spade on the solenoid. Hmmmm…
I've no documentation that it's the 'S' terminal that should be used. I concluded it's the 'S' because 1) the starter activation wire on the Alfas I've worked on is connected to the engine side of the solenoid and B) this terminal has the 'S' designation.
The 'C' terminal, which is not present on most starters, is usually a switched power source upon starter engagement. In other words, it provides power when the starter is engaged. For grins, you could hook the black wire to 'C' terminal but my bet is that the starter won't work.

Off the top of my head;
red/black stripe wire - oil pressure sender
brown - coolant
blue/white - low fuel pressure
'T' connector - w/shield washer pump
 

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Pleasure! :)

Would you like a color wiring diagram for your Spider? If so, please send me your email address in a private message and I'll send it to you.
 
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