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Overnight is fine but I think by driving it hard almost immediately must have wicked it out or made it less effective. Now I let it sit overnight and haven't had any issues since.

Kevin
 

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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
As I replace the transmission what kind of grease on the splines and thrust washer and should I put some gasket material on the interface between engine and bell housing

Thanks for your thoughts

Ts
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
I know that this is a bit off thread, but I have replaced the pinion seal while the driveshaft was off and the pinion nut was really not very tightly secured. i am sure that it is wound on far less than the torque specified in the books, not alot more than finger tight really. i have tried to follow this in the bb but it seems complicated. I am tempted to leave it as I found it rather than messing with it. Is there any danger to leaving as is, or should this be adjusted?

Thanks for any comments.

I will begin to reassemble the transmission to engine etc tomorrow. Have new ring gear on, with new starter that I am assured will mesh with the new ring. Will use green or blue loctite on the fly wheel bolts and torque them up to 82 as specified on the centerline chart.

It would be helpful to know if I should put any gasket compound on the seal between bell housing and rear of engine, there was none there when I took it apart.

Thanks so much for all your input as I move on with this.

TS
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
you can probably tell that I am getting a little anxious about putting things back together. I wanted to make sure that the starter flywheel ring gear combo is going to work before I commit to this. So if anyone can confirm this I would be considerably happier at this stage. The set I now have is a new 130 tooth ring gear with an outer diameter of 278mm. The starter is a bosch SR484X; here are some numbers from the bosch unit: 1005621071 1073017. Another question, does this combination also require that the the shim be in place between starter and bell housing?

Thanks for any input on this.

TS
 

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I wanted to make sure that the starter flywheel ring gear combo is going to work before I commit to this. So if anyone can confirm this I would be considerably happier at this stage. The set I now have is a new 130 tooth ring gear with an outer diameter of 278mm. The starter is a bosch SR484X; here are some numbers from the bosch unit: 1005621071 1073017
My reference on this issue is post #3 in the thread at: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/gt-1965-1974/39666-starters-ring-gears.html

I am a little concerned that none of the starter numbers that you quote (SR484X, 1005621071, and 1073017) appear in the post referenced above. I have found that post to be accurate - that is, the starters on my Alfas have p/n's that correspond to the ones George Willet cites. Where did your latest starter come from, and what leads you to believe it is compatible with a 130 tooth RG?

Another question, does this combination also require that the the shim be in place between starter and bell housing?
Sure. All Alfa starters should use a steel shim against the bellhousing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
Hi Jay
I guess that the starter numbers you list refer to original equipment. I have a brand new starter from Bosch.

The starter and replacement flywheel/ring gear come from Group 2, an alfa specialist shop in seattle who have proven reliable in the past. However, I am getting a little paranoid since my reading suggests that what I have been sold may not be compatible. The replacement ring gear I am about to install has 130 teeth, and based on the info linked below, i wonder if the 1005 821 071 (number stamped on case of the one I have been sold) bosch unit should in fact be a 1005 821 419 to fit this ring gear. Does this matter? Will the 071 work just fine?

I don't want to mess up another ring gear with the wrong starter.


Aluminum Flywheels for Sachs Clutches from Spruell Motorsport

Thanks for thinking about this and for any recommendations

TS
 

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no gasket compound between engine and trans, gasket compounds are for gaskets, none in this application. the most important thing here is to make sure the flywheel is correctly seated, tighten the bolts in a star pattern, get everything flush before torquing any of the flywheel bolts
 

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The starter and replacement flywheel/ring gear come from Group 2, an alfa specialist shop in seattle who have proven reliable in the past.
Group 2 is a well-known shop - I'd hope they know what they are doing. I suppose one approach would be to visit them again, and simply ask: "Are you SURE this starter is intended for a 130 tooth ring gear?". If they reply: "130. 131, it doesn't matter" then you know you have a problem.

Another Bosch number I have in my notes is: 011-108-081 Apparently that's a gear reduction unit used on 1990 - '94 Alfas with 130 tooth ring gears. Some people substitute those into earlier cars, since gear reduction starters deliver more torque.

The fact that my notes don't include the numbers you cite (1005 821 071 and 1005 821 419) doesn't mean they're wrong - I just can't make sense of them. You might try PM'ing Papajam who wrote post #20 in this thread, and getting his take on this problem - as the AROC librarian (and a very knowledgeable guy), he has access to factory literature that might address this question.
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
Hi papajam
Wonder if I could have your help on a starter ring gear question.
The car is a 1974 alfa spider. You can follow the story from this thread but essentially I am trying to put together a starter ring gear combination that will work. The original ring gear was destroyed when I put in a modern starter that was sold to me as the correct part. So I have removed the original flywheel which had a 130 tooth ring gear , and went to group 2 in Seattle to get replacement RG and starter. They sold me a lightly used fly with RG attached that showed little wear; this one is also a 130 tooth RG. They also sold me a modern Bosch starter and assured me that the two would go together. However, I have grown cautious after the last episode and did some checking and based on the Spruel web site, the correct modern starter for a 130 tooth RG seems not to be the one supplied to me by group 2. They gave me one with number 1005 821 071. The Spruel site indicates that the ....071 should be matched with ........491.
What do I do? Group 2 have been reliable in the past. However, I don't want to screw up another ring gear.
I was wondering about buying a 131 tooth RG from IAP to replace the 130 tooth on the newer flywheel. I measure the ID on the RG I have; it's 232 mm. The stamp on the flywheel reads 105.12.02.40000.
I'd be so grateful for some expert guidance in this before proceeding to replace the transmission

Thanks for any advice

Ts
 

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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
clarification

have to correct last post which is confusing, apologies for this,
This is what I mean to say.

Wonder if I could have some help on a starter ring gear question.
I am trying to put together a starter ring gear combination that will work. The original ring gear was destroyed when I put in a modern starter that was sold to me (I think incorrectly by an auto electric business) as the correct part. So I have removed the original flywheel which had a 130 tooth ring gear , and went to group 2 in Seattle to get replacement RG and starter. Group 2 have always been first rate. They sold me a lightly used fly with RG attached that showed little wear; this one is also a 130 tooth RG. They also sold me a modern Bosch starter and assured me that the two would go together.

However, I have grown cautious after the last episode and did some checking and based on the Spruel web site (referenced in earlier post), the correct modern starter for a 130 tooth RG seems not to be the one supplied to me by group 2. They gave me one with number 1005 821 071. The Spruel site indicates that the 130 tooth ring gear should be matched with 1005 821 419 and that the 1005 821 071 starter (the one I now have) should go with the 131 tooth ring gear (which I don't have).

What do I do? Group 2 have been reliable in the past. However, I don't want to screw up another ring gear. I am having difficulty finding unambiguous information to help me.

I was wondering about buying a 131 tooth RG from IAP to replace the 130 tooth on the newer flywheel.

I measured the ID on the 130 tooth RG I have; it's 232 mm. The stamp on the flywheel reads 105.12.02.40000. The starter supplied with this by Group 2 is a Bosch SR484X. There are a bunch of numbers on this, but the stamped numbers on the body read as follows:
1073017 and 1006 821 071

I'd be so grateful for some expert guidance in this before proceeding to replace the transmission

Thanks for any advice
 

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Not an expert in this area by any means but my understanding is that the 130 tooth flywheels need a starter from a 72-74 2l or from a Series 4 Spider.
Since not all later Alfa parts manuals list the Bosch part number, trying to cross reference Bosch part numbers is a feat worthy of applause. Not to mention that an original OE fitted starter from the factory may not have the same Bosch number that's the book.
Bottom line is that I think that the 1005 821 071 is NOT correct for your flywheel.
 

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TS,

I don't know if this will help but I'll offer it up.

I have attached photos of three different starters.
Small geared starter #1005 824 071. Also has a second # 1073017 ??

Large not geared starter 0001 211 987

Large not geared starter 0001 311 110

The two large starters appear to be the exact same size but have different solenoids. One came off of my 74 2L Spider and both fit and work on that engine. The ring gear is 130 tooth model. I tested theses on the engine while it is on the engine stand.

The small geared starter is the type that is supposed to only work with a 131 tooth ring gear. I have two of these. I tested both on my engine while it is on the engine stand and interestingly enough, they both worked without any grinding noise.

I know this doesn't help you but may be why there are so many different stories out there.

If you have the small geared starter, you may want to order a 131 tooth ring gear from Spruel and have it installed on your flywheel. Perhaps you could return the fly wheel and ring gear you got from group 2


Auto part Automotive starter motor Automotive engine part
 

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Discussion Starter · #57 ·
The small geared starter you show is exactly the one I have. If I cannot get a starter that I know will work with the 130 tooth RG, then I will have to get a new 131 RG and install that onto the fly wheel in place of the 130 tooth RG.
Interesting that the small starter worked on your 130 set up, but I don't want to take the risk with install on the car.

Watch this space!

Ts
 

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TS,
Since you have the small geared starter I would certainly pop for a 131 tooth ring gear. That is a known correct combination. I am sure you do not want to go through the removal and replacement of this gear twice.

My motto is to fix it right once. Some times that costs more now but is cheaper in the long run.

Nothing more frustrating than having to address the same problem again because I was too cheap or in too much of a hurry to do it right the first time. Of course my Dad was a tool and die guy for the first half of his career and perfection was the standard in our home and the tolerances were measured in the thousandths, even when laying drain tile at the house. Oh the memories, and I know where I got it from:blush::blush:

Also, consider having your flywheel lightened and balanced after they install the ring gear. You will be glad you did!
 

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Discussion Starter · #59 ·
I will call IAP tomorrow to see if they have a 131 RG that will fit onto the flywheel that I have. This would be a good option since it seems the least speculative. Also looking at finding a starter that would work with the current fly wheel with 130 Tooth RG. At least I have some options.

Ts
 
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