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Discussion Starter #1
I would to upgrade the brake master cylinder of my -64 Giulia SS to dual circuit for casual competition use. Can't go Wilwood etc. due to regulations. What are my options for an Alfa OEM piece? It's a front disc/rear drum car.
 

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My SS was converted to a dual system but I do not know who did it. It is a Girling brake master cylinder marked 0668 071/14. I have never found a reference to the numbers but have been told it may originate from a unspecified Volvo. I run it without a booster and with a strong leg.

Hope this helps and doesn't send you on a goose chase.

Regards,
Don
 

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Unfortunately, the number does not look like a Girling parts number (which typically looks something like 1234 5678), but it might be a casting number.
 

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Alfa only had 2 types of master cylinders that were dual for their floor pedal cars.

This link is for the usa 1969 only system. Original was an ATE.

This one is for the right hand drive cars which were always floor pedal cars.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hi everybody and thanks for the info! Looks like the ATE BR080 might fit the bill. Do the ATE master cylinders fit the Girling mounting position? If not, do you know what fabrication if any is required to mount them?
 

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I think it might be the same bolt hole spacing. My 67 Super was converted to the 69 pedal assembly. But has a single stage braks master cylinder on it.

The 69 pedal assembly was a little different. As it was also the first year of the hydraulic clutch.

You might email Classic Alfa and see if the will measure the bolt hole spacing.
 

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I think it might be the same bolt hole spacing. My 67 Super was converted to the 69 pedal assembly. But has a single stage brake master cylinder on it. The 69 pedal assembly was a little different. As it was also the first year of the hydraulic clutch.
Whoa, careful. ascari is looking for a MC that will fit a 101, while Jim G is discussing 105's. I agree with Jim G about 105's; I've done that same swap on my Sprint, using a '69 pedal box, but retaining the '66 MC. He's right, the bolt spacing is the same between those two MC's, but both were intended for 105's.

But whether the 101 MC's also use that bolt spacing, and whether the much longer dual circuit '69 cylinder would fit into the volume available on a 101, are unknowns to me.

You might email Classic Alfa and see if the will measure the bolt hole spacing.
Or beg/steal/borrow a '69 cylinder - even a junk one - just to see if it will fit. Then spend $364 on a new one.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for the heads up! It's indeed a tight space between MC and headers so I'm now officially begging for a junk -69 MC for loan/free/cheap. (Passing on "steal".) Any donors?
 

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It's indeed a tight space between MC and headers
Yes, I used to own a 101 spider, and recall that the MC was stuffed into a relatively small space between the floorboard and exhaust system. Even if the '69 cylinder fit into that space, its proximity to the exhaust might result in boiling the fluid.

You might volunteer where you live. If you are in an Alfa-rich area, a local BB member may have a '69 cylinder that they can loan you.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks! On the SS there's even less space than on our 101 Spiders. I think boiling fluid may have been a problem even with the shorter MC since there's an intricate heat shield squeezed in between the exhaust and MC and bolted to the pedal box. Looks very original, but who knows? We're in rural VA, unfortunately not a whole lot of Alfas around here ("Alfie Romero? Who's that?") but if I snag a -69 MC locally I'll test fit and post what I find out.
 

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Thanks! On the SS there's even less space than on our 101 Spiders. I think boiling fluid may have been a problem even with the shorter MC since there's an intricate heat shield squeezed in between the exhaust and MC and bolted to the pedal box. Looks very original, but who knows? We're in rural VA, unfortunately not a whole lot of Alfas around here ("Alfie Romero? Who's that?") but if I snag a -69 MC locally I'll test fit and post what I find out.
FWIW,I doubt that something like this will give you enough room,but the idea is there.Alfastop sells a pedal box spacer(easy enough to make,?)https://www.alfastop.co.uk/cgi-bin/psProdDet.cgi?prod_code=1BRM104 Also,I have an off topic question that you may easily be able to help me with.I have a master cylinder with 1" bore like all 2-shoe MC's,(probably 750 as it has the threaded endcap for the brake light switch),but the length of the mounting bolts would be shorter as well as the length of the master cylinders' mounting lugs.These lugs measure appx.1.845" long as opposed to most master cylinders which measure 2.25"long,a difference of.40".The parts book shows different MC and bolt numbers for the Sprint and Spider Veloces,SS and SZ than it does for the Berlina,Sprint,spider,and Ti. I've heard that the shorter bolt type is for the Veloce,SS and SZ.Can you post the measurements of your MC and mounting bolts?Thanks in advance,Phil
 

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Thanks! On the SS there's even less space than on our 101 Spiders. I think boiling fluid may have been a problem even with the shorter MC since there's an intricate heat shield squeezed in between the exhaust and MC and bolted to the pedal box. Looks very original, but who knows?
My '63 Giulia had a heatshield too that I'm sure was built by the factory, but looked pretty crude. It was made from soft aluminum lined with asbestos.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Phil, Will do, but give me a couple of days to get back to you since I'm away from the car at the moment.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Phil, I got curious and ran by the car to take some measurements and it's the wider variety., roughly 2.25". Actually it's exactly 57.5 mm. Hope that helps!
 

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Thanks for checking that out.It helps me remember to not assume anything,especially with Alfa Romeos.I am just left wondering why there are different part numbers for the Veloce,SS and SZ master cylinder and bolts? BTW,I was also told that master cylinders' lugs were shortened deliberately so they could be removed without taking the pedal box out.I'll leave that up to the readers to believe or not.Thanks again,Phil
 

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Phil the SS & SZ had a different MC part number as the 3 leading shoe had a different size diameter piston, as did the disc brake MC, the standard 2 shoe MC is 1"; from posts on the following page the 3 shoe MC is 3/4" and the disc brake MC is also 3/4" (Thanx for the corrections chaps !!)

As far as I know the Giulietta Veloce's use the standard 1" bore. The early cars used the cap with the hole for the brake light pressure switch, which was moved to the 4 way brass union above the pedal box during the Interim period. The switches on the end of the MC have a hard life, those aluminium heat shields work hard to keep the fluid from boiling under the headers, a harder job in a Veloce with so much more header area and of course they were generally driven harder in the day

I have that odd size mounting lug MC's on one of my cars, can't remember which one now, but it has 2 thick spacer washers which basically make up the missing bit of the mounting lug - I doubt that they would make it any easier to get the MC out, the real trick is getting the bolts out in a confined space. I usually pull the pedal box as it's far easier to do any MC work that way, you can bench bleed the MC prior to installation & plus you get to check & lube the pedal pivots. A win-win !!

Ciao
Greig
 

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Hello Greig,I thought that the three shoe set-up used a smaller M/C piston too.Maybe they did after late 1961,but in my # N776,11/1961parts book,all internal master cylinder parts carry the same part numbers for all models,including the piston,main seal,etc..But even if the book is incorrect AFA internal parts,why the different part number for the mounting bolts? BTW,I totally agree with you AFA removing the whole pedal box for all of the reasons you've stated.
 

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Hello Greig,I thought that the three shoe set-up used a smaller M/C piston too.Maybe they did after late 1961,but in my # N776,11/1961parts book,all internal master cylinder parts carry the same part numbers for all models,including the piston,main seal,etc..But even if the book is incorrect AFA internal parts,why the different part number for the mounting bolts? BTW,I totally agree with you AFA removing the whole pedal box for all of the reasons you've stated.
 

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