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Yes. The sump guard is the wrought iron cage that protects the oil pan. It is secured by four bolts - one in each corner.

Is the manifold bracket currently attached at any of the securing points? Which one(s)? If not, can you take a picture of it and post it?

You say your bracket is stamped steel and doesn't look like the sketch I embedded in my first post - my bracket is also stamped steel but it does look like the one in the sketch.

The bottom bolt (that attaches the bracket to the passenger motor mount) is indeed the most difficult to remove/replace, especially with the starter installed and in a car with AC.

When you started this thread, you stated that you had removed the 'intake' - did you unbolt the manifold from the head with the intake hoses and plenum still attached, or did you just loosen/remove the Romablok hose clamps from the 4 intake hoses and only remove the plenum?

Having a bit of trouble visualizing what has been removed and is currently disconnected. Even a photo of your engine compartment (as it looks now) would be helpful...
 

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Discussion Starter #22
right now the only things not installed are the 2 bolts that go into the plenum chamber through the bracket. I'm still learning the nomenclature so forgive me. I removed the plenum from the rubber sleeves to replace a seized bellcrank assembly.
As for the difference of the bracket, I don't recall that upper rubber mount. I'd have to look at it again, but I think it is just a piece of steel with two holes in it.
And yes, this car has a/c, just to make it interesting.
Sounds like this will have to be put on a lift and addressed from beneath.

On a good note, I got the gas tank cleaned, sealed and installed today. In tank fuel pump goes in tomorrow as well as new fuel filter[external]
Thanks for trying tohelp
 

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Advice

This bracket is what makes changing the motor mount such a pain in the neck. So you may want to tack a look through Vintries (SP?) Engine Mount for dummies thread for some tips. It is sort the authoritative source for how to change the mounts doing everything from underneath (Plenium stays in in place) and a very good thread. Also you may want to consider changing the mounts as you are tackling, in my opinion, the hardest part of the mount change which is a maintenance item.
I have an S3/FI and have had many problems with the bracket. First was that the PO when changing the motor mounts stripped the two threaded holes in the bottom of the Plenium. It made a terrible racket, clanging upon hard acceleration in low gears and was hard to trace to a loose bracket. I had to take the whole thing apart and drill out the holes and install helicoils. I then managed to strip the third bolt hole upon reassembly. The one to the bottom of the manifold. It was to say the least a very dark moment. I was not forcing anything but seem to have simply started the bolt on an angle. Yes, I was in over my head. I have a strong suspicion that many Spiders on the road are missing some of these bolts due to botched motor mount changes. This summer I noticed that that third bolt had worked its way out completely. I guess I was a little shy about over tightening the bolt in the repaired hole. Replaced the bolt, used some Permatex and made sure to properly tighten the bolt. Even the third time, it is still a very hard/fiddley job. As you said the bracket is often sprung and hard to line up and made to stay in place.

So enough with the confessional here are some tips. 1) Disconnect the battery. You are very close the starter. 2) At some point after much frustration and literal blood shed everything will line up and come together, so do not force anything and risk stripping bolt holes. 3) Fasten the bottom bolt that holds the bracket to the MM last. Just put a screwdriver though the mount and bracket to hold the bracket up and loosely in place, while you can get the tricky bolts up top started. This is the easiest bolt to work on. 4) The bolt that holds the bracket to the fuel rail does not need to be removed for a motor mount change and should be in place while you work on the three bolts up there. The fuel rail itself has plenty of give. 5) The oil sump guard does not need to be removed. It is only held on by four bolts but it can be fidlley to refit they get distorted after years of scrapping. You do have to move around quite a bit underneath to get a ratchet up and on the different bolts. For one a swivel is needed. For one you have to thread the extension from far to the rear, snaking the extension between the oil pan and the chassis cross member. 6) The three top bolts can and should all be started from the top by hand. Just thread your arm underneath the Plenium sometimes working from the front, sometimes working form the rear. You have more room than you think, not a lot but just barely enough. If you do not have enough room you may have to jack up the engine a few inches, after the mount is unbolted from the frame of course. 7) For final tightening you have to work from the bottom with a ratchet and two long extensions. The front bolt to the bottom of the plenium can be tightened from above with a box wrench.
Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #24 (Edited)
I'm going to bring all these ideas to the car. This will be done by the end of next week.
I plan on starting on Saturday and will keep at it until it's done.
I'll let you know how it goes.

On a related note, what should I look for in the motor mount to see if it's still good? Do they collapse or delaminate?
 

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On a related note, what should I look for in the motor mount to see if it's still good? Do they collapse or delaminate?
Hey bfitz241,

Check out the pictures below.

The first photo shows what new mounts look like.

The second photo is what my passenger motor mount looked like up until a month ago. See how the rubber is cracked, and bulging out past the base of the metal bracket on top of it? If your mounts look anything like this, you need to replace them.

The rubber of the mount should not have any splits or cracks and be cylindrical (or almost).

I'll see if I can find some pictures of my new mounts with the full weight of the motor on them.
 

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Although the mount on the right doesn't look all that bad unloaded, it would compress enough (as would the left engine mount) such that the lower sump was hitting the pan guard. Of note is that the old mounts had only 25k miles on them but were in service for almost 25 years. So mileage is not the only factor in the service life of a component (especially rubber).
 

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new mounts

And here's a couple of pics I took after tightening the nuts on the block studs, but before I fully tightened the mount base nuts and bolts to the crossmember. Fully supporting the weight of the engine yet no bulging is visible.
 

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And here's a couple of pics I took after tightening the nuts on the block studs, but before I fully tightened the mount base nuts and bolts to the crossmember. Fully supporting the weight of the engine yet no bulging is visible.
Norseman,

Where did you get those mounts? They're the better ones.

Thanks.
 

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Norseman,

Where did you get those mounts? They're the better ones.

Thanks.
Hi Jim,

You have a keen eye my friend. I purchased them from Alfaholics in the U.K. Here is a link to their web site:

Classic Alfa Romeo spare parts - Alfa Specialists

I ordered their "Standard" mounts:

Engine Mounts - Standard - Left - Classic Alfa Romeo spare parts
Engine Mounts - Standard - Right - Classic Alfa Romeo spare parts

They also carry a "Heavy Duty" version that costs a bit more:

Engine mounts - Heavy Duty - Left - Classic Alfa Romeo spare parts
Engine mounts - Heavy Duty - Right - Classic Alfa Romeo spare parts

I'm not sure what all is different in the two designs, but I was very happy with the "Standard" ones I got.
 

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The pirelli mounts which are the ones you got from classic alfa are the ones we were putting on the cars when I was working on them starting in the late 80's. They were more expensive then the factory mounts but hold up twice as long. The factory mounts were okay. But the ones sold here that look like the originals I think are worse then the factory ones were. I'm glad to see that they are available again. To bad none of the suppliers here in the states have them.

I would like to know what the difference is between the regular and the heavy duty mounts that classic alfa has.
 

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The pirelli mounts which are the ones you got from classic alfa are the ones we were putting on the cars when I was working on them starting in the late 80's. They were more expensive then the factory mounts but hold up twice as long. The factory mounts were okay. But the ones sold here that look like the originals I think are worse then the factory ones were. I'm glad to see that they are available again. To bad none of the suppliers here in the states have them.

I would like to know what the difference is between the regular and the heavy duty mounts that classic alfa has.
The wording of the direct link to their web site mentions 'Classic Alfa', but the link is actually for Alfaholics. I purchased my Pirelli mounts from Alfaholics.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
Done! Complete. Didn't leave any parts out. The lower bolt was, and still is, frozen in its mount so I ignored it. I removed all the upper hardware, the 2 large bolts that weren't installed and the 2 little ones that were. All from under the car. No help...still couldn't get it aligned.
I finally loosened all the rubber couplings between the intake and the plenum and kept repositioning the plenum until the holes lined up. I got the forwardmost bolt started from the top, and the rearward bolt from the bottom by using an extension and swivel socket.
After they were started the remaining hardware was relatively easy to install. Everything was tightened from the bottom with extensions and swivel sockets.

The motor mounts didn't look like they've collapsed too bad, and that job will wait until it is an absolute necessity.

Rear fuel pump installed, new fuel filter. Tomorrow I'm going to put gas in it and turn the key.
Wish me luck.
 

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Hi Jim,

You have a keen eye my friend. I purchased them from Alfaholics in the U.K. Here is a link to their web site:

Classic Alfa Romeo spare parts - Alfa Specialists

I ordered their "Standard" mounts:

Engine Mounts - Standard - Left - Classic Alfa Romeo spare parts
Engine Mounts - Standard - Right - Classic Alfa Romeo spare parts

They also carry a "Heavy Duty" version that costs a bit more:

Engine mounts - Heavy Duty - Left - Classic Alfa Romeo spare parts
Engine mounts - Heavy Duty - Right - Classic Alfa Romeo spare parts

I'm not sure what all is different in the two designs, but I was very happy with the "Standard" ones I got.
I just received a set of the standard mounts. The rubber looks much beefier. $115 delivered in 3 days to central Illinois.:clap:
 
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