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Hey everyone…I bought that Spica pump off of esc2064, plus a new Thermostatic Actuator from Wes, got everything installed on my 74 spider, but the car starts worse than before. I talked to Wes about it..he said I will have to spend a little time tweaking it…but what am I actually tweaking? The car had no cold start before, but I thought a new TA would take care of that. I can barely get the car to start, it won't idle, not even after warming up. It runs fine on the freeway. Can anyone give me a few suggestions where to start? I greatly appreciate it! I'm hoping to get her "purring like a kitten" New Years day… Thanks for any help…also, Happy New Year everyone!!!

-Rogue-
 

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Do you have the guides and manuals for setting up the system? You need to do a from-square-one, soup-to-nuts setup. Is this a used pump? KNOWN good, or hopefully good?
 

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I have Wes' book that he put together. The pump was one that he rebuilt back in '09. It was on a car for a short period of time according to the owner…it looked fairly new and was quite clean when I picked it up. Forgive my not knowing, but what is "soup-to-nuts"?
 

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Soup to nuts = From start to finish.

Follow the instructions in the manual meticulously.
 

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Rogue - some advice here from more of a SPICA newbie. There are some elements in Wes' book that are hard to follow if you are a first timer. Search the alfabb for some of the setup guides which are written in a more "sequence of operations" style - start to finish. Wes' book helps clarify exactly how individual components work but if you are first timer you need something that tells you how to start from scratch. I had to go through that whole sequence about 3 times to get things working pretty well. After the first pass the car was running but not properly so I re-checked electrical and then went back to the SPICA sequence. There are a few out there but I found the "SPICA Tune Up" guide by Robert Parry, AROO Tune Up Clinic" to be very helpful. Also Roadtrip has a bunch of good posts on the subject. It isn't fun and you have to have patience but I can tell you from my experience that you need to research the details first and make sure you understand them and then go step by step. Every time you find yourself saying things like "that's good, I already did that" then you need to stop and re-check that step. Good luck and please post your results to help the next guy!
 

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Rogue,

See below for the AROO (Alfa Romeo Owners of Oregon) SPICA guide. As mentioned, everything must be done in sequence.

Rogue - some advice here from more of a SPICA newbie. There are some elements in Wes' book that are hard to follow if you are a first timer. Search the alfabb for some of the setup guides which are written in a more "sequence of operations" style - start to finish. Wes' book helps clarify exactly how individual components work but if you are first timer you need something that tells you how to start from scratch. I had to go through that whole sequence about 3 times to get things working pretty well. After the first pass the car was running but not properly so I re-checked electrical and then went back to the SPICA sequence. There are a few out there but I found the "SPICA Tune Up" guide by Robert Parry, AROO Tune Up Clinic" to be very helpful. Also Roadtrip has a bunch of good posts on the subject. It isn't fun and you have to have patience but I can tell you from my experience that you need to research the details first and make sure you understand them and then go step by step. Every time you find yourself saying things like "that's good, I already did that" then you need to stop and re-check that step. Good luck and please post your results to help the next guy!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
..I've received a great deal of info from you guys today…thank you! I am going to take the time to go over this material and give it my full (or is that fool?) attention. That way, when I start going step by step, the car won't cool down while I'm trying to figure out what's next. I thought there might be a couple easy adjustments, but given that this is my first time with the SPICA, I'm going to have to really study. I had hoped to be out driving it today, but it can wait until I get ready. I will return here and let you know how my progress is going…
Again, thank you all!
 

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Rogue - I don't know where you are in CA but I am in So Cal and am willing to give some help if needed. Up close and in person if you are nearby or by phone if other. I'm no expert but I'll know when to call in the big guns! Send me a PM if interested and good luck!
 

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71 Berlina 74 GTV 17 Giulia Q4
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Your approach is spot on. Once you understand the theory of operation and the setup you will marvel at the genius of the system just how reliable and rock solid the SPICA is. Once you have a feel for the whats and whys don't be afraid to ask questions and at the risk of speaking for others folks like Roadtrip and others are always ready to assist.
 

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I thought you were the big guns!… :) Okay, update…I set the idle screw, then went on to the TA, after taking the car for a drive and warming her up of course. The specs I got said the measurement inside the housing from the top of the screw to the top of the housing should be 27mm, which is just over 1 inch. I could not get that measurement even with the screw screwed all the way in. When I pushed the actuator back down in and set the mounting screws, it is pushing the arm at the back of the pump all the way against the stop, which is short, and still has Wes' paint markings, marking its location. I noticed that the arm is on a splined shaft…is it possible that the arm is in the wrong position on the shaft?
 

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I thought you were the big guns!… :) Okay, update…I set the idle screw
You said that you have got Wes book. According to his book this is almost the last think to do.
then went on to the TA, after taking the car for a drive and warming her up of course. The specs I got said the measurement inside the housing from the top of the screw to the top of the housing should be 27mm, which is just over 1 inch. I could not get that measurement even with the screw screwed all the way in.
This is wrong. According to Wes book the 27mm is to verify a good working TA and has got nothing to do with the setting of the pump.
According to Wes book you will have to set the arm against the stop screw with the engine at working temperature and with the long rod disconnected to the desired gap.
When I pushed the actuator back down in and set the mounting screws, it is pushing the arm at the back of the pump all the way against the stop, which is short, and still has Wes' paint markings, marking its location.
Has to from the way you set up the pump in the first place.
I noticed that the arm is on a splined shaft…is it possible that the arm is in the wrong position on the shaft?
No.

I suggested you read the book back and forward and then start working on the car.

Soup to nuts

Salutations from the Baltic Sea

Bernhard
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Bernard, I'm guessing you have read this entire post before responding to my last update. And in that case, you would see the others who have made very helpful inputs, including other reading material on the subject of all things SPICA. One of the things I received was SPICA Tune Up by Robert Perry. Are you suggesting there is only one resource…Wes Ingram? The T/A test you are referring to involves putting the top end of the T/A into hot water at operating temp, then measuring the bottom for length, letting it cool, measure and repeat. That is what verifies the T/A is functioning as specified. I have a new one I bought from Wes, so I do not need to test its function, I need to get the pump set right so that it functions in accord with the T/A….but thank you for your input...
 

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Throttle arm goes on the shaft in only one position due to the fact that it's keyed.

I think you have a basic misunderstanding of the system.

On your T/A, do you have 4mm worth of washers/spacers on it. Otherwise, depending on if it's a 29mm or 31mm extension T/A, you'll not be correct with a pump that uses a 27mm T/A.

The T/A extension of 27mm is measured with the T/A at 175F. As the coolant in the engine heats up past that to normal running (about 190F or so) the T/A will actually continue to extend, and without the long rod attached to the throttle arm on the rear of the injection pump, will continue to drive the throttle arm to the reference screw stop.

Do this to demonstrate it for yourself. Take a narrow bladed screwdriver (no wider than the slot in the screw in the pump). With the T/A out, push down on the screw slowly and watch the throttle arm move towards the reference screw. You'll see that it hits the stop, but then you can continue to push down on the T/A screw some more.

Now that you've maladjusted the screw, you can get it back into the ball park by screwing it all the way down, then back it off 5 complete turns.

The pump gap is set (,019") with the coolant at 175F and the long rod disconnected.

Later in the setup, with the engine at FULL operating temp (about 190F), you'll connect the long rod and adjust it to bring the pump gap back to .019". (Again, without the long rod connected, at full op temp, the pump gap will be zero).

The whole reason for the pump gap at .019" thing is THAT is where increased fuel delivery starts when you move the throttle arm. Soon as you step on the accelerator, you don't want to be going through a deadband of a fraction of an inch before commanding the injection pump to deliver more fuel.

I know this is a little complicated, but does it make sense now?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
…"a basic misunderstanding of the system" is putting it lightly John, but your description that follows helps clear things up immensely. I did that test last night of pushing the mechanism down and watching the arm move…I forgot about the shimming Wes described in his book. My old pump and T/A had no shim, so it wasn't on my radar...
 

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71 Berlina 74 GTV 17 Giulia Q4
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On a related subject PO's are notorious for removing and not replacing all the injector line supports simply because it's a pain to put them back on. if yours are in place that's great, if not they really need to be there. They will crack sooner rather than later. So it's important. If you don't have them there are spares out there to be had. Just wanted to bring that up, just in case. The best way to get the .019 gap is to have the top part of the TA hooked up and heated by the at operating temp coolant. I replaced the machine screws that hold the ta in the pump with allen head metric cap screws. They are much easier to get started with a long allen wrench than a screwdriver. Just be careful when taking the TA in and out so as not to kink the capillary tube on your new TA.
 

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…"a basic misunderstanding of the system" is putting it lightly John, but your description that follows helps clear things up immensely. I did that test last night of pushing the mechanism down and watching the arm move…I forgot about the shimming Wes described in his book. My old pump and T/A had no shim, so it wasn't on my radar...
Sorry about my post.
I did not want to offend you, but I thought your understanding of the system was not as good as it could have been with reading Wes book really
thoroughly.

Sorry for answering again.

Bernhard

Ps I wish my English would be as good as your German
 
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