[Toom356]

Hi all. On my '55 Sprint I have these carbs. I believe they are named SOLEX 32 PAIAT. But I can't find any drawings or instructions of them on the internet. Can anyone help? Thank you.

 

[Barn101]

Carbs, plural? Does your Sprint’s intake manifold look like it’s for one carburetor, or two? The Normales came with a Solex. Lots of information regarding those are in the Alfa factory shop & parts manuals. Most vendors have rebuilt kits for those. Is your car running? I am on my third Solex still trying to find the one that responds the best.

 

[Toom356]

Plural: oh, yes I didn't notice. My first classic car with a single carburetor.

Car is actually running nicely, but with the choker out! I haven't been able to drive the car since it is not registered so I haven't made the diagnosis yet. I just find it perculiar that I cannot find a good drawing/illustration on the internet of the PAIAT. Would like to know how it works. And don't dare disassemble before I have a set of new sealings. The car is very original and unmolested and I want to keep it that way. Cheers.

 

[williamcorke]

These might help.
If you have a spare 32 PAIAT I am very interested, as my '55 Sprint is missing one and came with a later 35 APIA-G.

 

[Toom356]

Hi William! Thank you. Exactly what I needed. Much appreciated.

I only have one Sprint and one carb, sorry.

 

[Toom356]

Hi William! Thank you. Exactly what I needed. Much appreciated.

I only have one Sprint and one carb, sorry.

I include a photo of the manifold for reference. The connection on the left side is for a sprinkler washer. I belive this is not original?

 

[alfasprinty]

Hi Toom356 & William,

The closest rebuilt kit I ever saw and that is available on the Net is the kit for the 32 PAIAT for Mercedes. Many but not all of the gaskets are the same.

William,
Fwiw, at least some of the Mercedes 300 and 300B ( the big Adenauer cars from the fifties you know) also used two of the 32 PAIAT carbs.
You have to take into account that they are not exact copies of the Giulietta's 32 PAIAT, but many parts are ( and look) the same.

Hope this helps a bit.

Thierry

 

[alfasprinty]

Hi Toom356,

The Fispa fuel filter you show in post # 1 is certainly not original for the 1955 cars.
If there was one in your car, it would have been the earlier Fispa type: FB 37

Rgds,

Thierry

 

[Erik S]

These might help.
If you have a spare 32 PAIAT I am very interested, as my '55 Sprint is missing one and came with a later 35 APIA-G.
View attachment 1712127
View attachment 1712128
View attachment 1712126
View attachment 1712129
View attachment 1712125
View attachment 1712130

I might have a spare PAIAT carburettor for you - will look in my boxes.

 

[williamcorke]

I might have a spare PAIAT carburettor for you - will look in my boxes.

Thanks Erik, that would be amazing.
William

 

[Toom356]

Hi Toom356,

The Fispa fuel filter you show in post # 1 is certainly not original for the 1955 cars.
If there was one in your car, it would have been the earlier Fispa type: FB 37

Rgds,

Thierry

Hi Thierry
Petrol filter is probably added at a later point of time. Welding is not factory quality for sure. But at least they used a Italian Fispa filter. Will enclose a few photos.
Tom

 

[alfasprinty]

Hi Tom,

Thanks for the pictures you posted.
The filter you showed is probably 10 years younger than what your car would have had. Btw the early filter types, FB37 and FB43, did not have the fuel pressure regulating function like yours has, they only filtered the fuel.

By inserting following tittle in the search section, you can find some Fispa FB 37 information that we discussed about in a thread a while ago:


Fispa FB43 - fuel filter ( pressure regulator ?)



I also took some pictures of the filter support in my 1958 Sprint this evening: definitally the identical support but spotwelded. That could easily be a production difference between early and later cars.
All things considered, I would think that your filter support is original.
( ...just my conviction of course ...)
That would also imply that, for the originality, you have to go hunting for that early Fispa filter FB 37. ( Nice project !)

The FB 37 filter was already listed in the 1955 Alfa parts catalog, initially only for the Sprint. In the next catalog, the one showed by William, the FB 37 was listed for the Sprint, the Spider and the Berlina as well.

Would it be brutal to ask you for the chassis - and engine number from this early survivor ?
Be sure, no problem at all if you prefer not to share that here.


Best Rgds,

Thierry

 

[kg23]

My $0.02. I spent a bit of time and money to keep the original Solex on my '64 Giulia Spider and it never performed to my liking. I borrowed a Weber DCD from a friend's 1300cc Sprint and it worked better without jetting changes on my 1600 than my Solex . So, I bought a DCD (a period upgrade), rebuilt it, and it has been fantastic (after easy rebuild). If you want to keep originality, keep the Solex. If you want ease of tuning, parts, etc, I found the DCD to be a great improvement. The mechanical secondary gives physical right-foot-"Turbo!" feedback. You can even go modern Weber DGV for pretty reasonable money. I am running a DCD 32/36 on the Solex 32/32 intake which I think you have. That's not a theoretically deal setup, but it is working very well.

 

[Toom356]

Hi kg23 and Thierry: I originally wanted a car that I could change into an outlaw (like many early 356s). But realising that the car is an extraordinary unmolested car and have a long history file I have to go for preserving originality. And also not to change it back to "factory originality". I want to keep the unique elements that preserves the car's specific history. Like it has a curtain you can pull up in front of the radiator (from inside the cabin). The car drove in Sweden and like here in Denmark it gets very cold in the winter. I remember my dad's SAAB 96 from 1963 had the same equipment.

My car is #349 with original motor and all the unique features of the very early pre-production Sprints. Far from a perfect car but things will be corrected and changed bit by bit.

I am working on a website where I collect pictures and stuff that I can find about early Sprints. Will publish soon when I find the time.

 

[Barn101]

My $0.02. I spent a bit of time and money to keep the original Solex on my '64 Giulia Spider and it never performed to my liking. I borrowed a Weber DCD from a friend's 1300cc Sprint and it worked better without jetting changes on my 1600 than my Solex . So, I bought a DCD (a period upgrade), rebuilt it, and it has been fantastic (after easy rebuild). If you want to keep originality, keep the Solex. If you want ease of tuning, parts, etc, I found the DCD to be a great improvement. The mechanical secondary gives physical right-foot-"Turbo!" feedback. You can even go modern Weber DGV for pretty reasonable money. I am running a DCD 32/36 on the Solex 32/32 intake which I think you have. That's not a theoretically deal setup, but it is working very well.

Is an original air cleaner able to be used on your Weber, or is it way off size-wise to fit without air gaps? I’ve read about some type of adapter, but I don’t want to destroy my original can.

So far I have not felt a great response from any Solex I’ve been experimenting with, including my original, which is still out being restored after its first rebuild didn’t work at all. I’m also an originality-dedicated owner, but not against an upgrade that makes my Spider a better driving experience.

I know it’s not supposed to feel like a V-8 being only a 1300, but my 356 T5 didn’t have a V-8 either and it actually responded with true intent when you hit the pedal like this car can only dream about. I wish I could drive another Giulietta just to see if there’s a true first gear difference with its typical Normale diff gearing, or if that’s “just the way it is”… A good Weber is sounding much more promising. How much tinkering needs done with the linkage to the pedal?

 

[Toom356]

Yes a bit strange Alfa chose a German carb (Solex) instead of an Italian (Weber). Looking at the Solex 32 PAIAT makes you think it is an overengineered design. The Germans has a saying: "Warum soll man es einfach machen, wenn man es so schön kompliziert machen kann?". Why make it simple, when it is possible to make it so lovely complex.

Another observation: The Solex weighs a lot, and so does the pancake filter. Spending all the effort of designing a beautiful motor in aluminium and then equip it with heavy assessories?

 

[Toom356]

Is an original air cleaner able to be used on your Weber, or is it way off size-wise to fit without air gaps? I’ve read about some type of adapter, but I don’t want to destroy my original can.

So far I have not felt a great response from any Solex I’ve been experimenting with, including my original, which is still out being restored after its first rebuild didn’t work at all. I’m also an originality-dedicated owner, but not against an upgrade that makes my Spider a better driving experience.

I know it’s not supposed to feel like a V-8 being only a 1300, but my 356 T5 didn’t have a V-8 either and it actually responded with true intent when you hit the pedal like this car can only dream about. I wish I could drive another Giulietta just to see if there’s a true first gear difference with its typical Normale diff gearing, or if that’s “just the way it is”… A good Weber is sounding much more promising. How much tinkering needs done with the linkage to the pedal?

My Porsche 356A T2s for sure feels much more sportier than the Sprint (though I only have very limited experience with the Sprint for comparison). But needs to be challenged in the future.

 

[kg23]

Is an original air cleaner able to be used on your Weber, or is it way off size-wise to fit without air gaps? I’ve read about some type of adapter, but I don’t want to destroy my original can.

My car came with an adapter to fit the stock air filter onto a Weber (AlfaStop used to carry them) but it never fit correctly and was too tall. Adding a Weber to a 1600 means using a smaller air filter. A 1300 is easier fitment because of the shorter engine. I'm using a pancake filter as shown in the picture.

 

[alfasprinty]

Hi all,

I once had a Porsche 912 for a very short time. A nice, and perfect working car, but to be honest, it did not felt the same as my Giulietta TI.
Although the Porsche's top speed was 10 km higher than my Giulietta TI 's 155 km/h, in my opinion the Porsche remained an ennobled 'beetle'. My friend drove a beetle at that time.
The sound of the Porsche engine ( 912 !!) couldn't charm me like the Giulietta engine did, sorry guys.
I did not notice much difference in accelerating capacity either. If there was, I would remember it now. So the Porsche did not manage to meet the expectations ... and the Porsche had to go.
I guess the Ti was so grateful to me because I had chosen for her, that she brought me happily wherever I wanted to go for the next decade.

Tom,
I'm so glad that you take good care of that early, important car, respecting the originality.
Did you already have contact with AlfaBB member Alfabjorn55 from Sweden ? As you can derive from his usersname, he also has an early Sprint. Could be interesting maybe for you both.

The curtain in front of the radiator was also used on cars in Belgium. My first car, a 1949 Skoda had one too. Nice accessory, especially in the winter indeed.
We call it a 'Jalousie' here.

Fwiw and as you mentioned it, I weighed the difference between the Solex C 35 APAI-G and the Weber 36 DCD7, the Weber was only 170 gram lighter. The later Solex C 32 PAIA5 ( 101 Giulia cars ) was even weighing 200 grams less than that Weber carb.
All those carbs were made of the heavy 'Zamac'.
In the fifties, Weber offered also lighter variants for the vertical carbs (with aluminium body). the last one was the DCLD series but, if I'm correct, at the periode of the 36 DCD 7, early sixties, this all stopped.


kg23 & Dave,

The Italian air cleaner brand 'Sprint filter' made a special air cleaner for the Giulietta Spider that was fitted with the Weber 36 DCD. Nice round, in black and shiny 'sixties' plastic.
This air cleaner did not need the adapter.

About the lack of space when using a Weber, try to check how much space you have left above the air cleaner with the hood closed.

Height difference between the Solex C 35 APAI-G and the Weber 36 DCD7 is ~ 15,5 mm

Total height Solex C 35 APAI-G is ~ 125 mm
Total height Weber 36 DCD7 including oval adapter is ~ 140,5 mm

I didn't make the conversion yet myself but from what you can see on the pictures, comparing both carbs, the linkage to the pedal would be at about the same place, as is the choke device and the fuel entrance.


Rgds,

Thierry

 

[Barn101]

Those pics are great comparisons for info, Thierry. Thank you. I’m hoping when I get my original Solex 32 back it will work like it’s supposed to. It was one of those things on a first start of a rebuilt engine that can make one overthink problems elsewhere when it was just a simple carb with issues causing it all.