[Cali67Duetto]

Hey guys,

I have a 67 Duetto. This last week I rebuilt my Webers, reinstalled them and tuned them in pretty **** good. I still need a tiny bit of fine-tuning, but the car is running very well, no popping or hesitation. I also installed CL yellow sport springs in the front and was VERY pleased with the instructions for the “ALL-THREAD” method. The installation of the springs was rather easy! All this to say, the information gleamed from this BB is amazing. With this in mind, I tackle my next task…. I have a leak; it appears the leak is coming from my bell housing. It looks to be transmission oil. My brother has a car lift at home (full blown car lift, bought it from a shop going out'a bussiness, installed it on his 5 acre property. Uses it mainly for breaks and oil changes). I really do not want to bother him with my car and I wanna learn this crap myself!!! It looks like I am gonna remove the tranny and start replacing seals. While I have this thing apart, what should I look for and what should I replace since it is opened up? Should I also replace main seal on engine, that kinda stuff. You guys in the know, what would you do. I know only the basics about cars, but I can follow instructions very well. Help is needed.

Marcos

 

[Cali67Duetto]

Oh crap, I was reading some threads on transmission removals Is this better left to pros? I am kinda scared

 

[tom shewchuk]

If you have the transmission out replace the seals. The transmission is easier to get out than it looks. I pulled mine to replace the throw out bearing, and replaced all the seals as well, and did it with the car on jack stands. There are a few tricks, I'd wished I knew, like disconnect the exhaust at the rear to tip the engine on the mounts to make removal and installation easier. I also had to disconnect the pedal box from the floor to get enough clearance to remove the trans. The seals were easy, and you'll find a lot threads on changing them.

 

[Cali67Duetto]

If you have the transmission out replace the seals. The transmission is easier to get out than it looks. I pulled mine to replace the throw out bearing, and replaced all the seals as well, and did it with the car on jack stands. There are a few tricks, I'd wished I knew, like disconnect the exhaust at the rear to tip the engine on the mounts to make removal and installation easier. I also had to disconnect the pedal box from the floor to get enough clearance to remove the trans. The seals were easy, and you'll find a lot threads on changing them.

Thank you Tom, how many seals and what are they called? Good to get info from a fellow Roundtail.

Marcos

 

[Alfajay]

I have a leak; it appears the leak is coming from my bell housing. It looks to be transmission oil.

I would verify where the oil is coming from before taking things apart. In my experience, engine oil is more likely to leak from the rear main seal than transmission oil from the trans front seal. You don't want to assume it's only the trans that's leaking, do this (big) job, and then find that you need to disassemble things again to get at the rear main.

The "belt and suspenders" approach would be to just replace both seals while you have the trans and flywheel off.

My brother has a car lift at home (full blown car lift, bought it from a shop going out'a bussiness, installed it on his 5 acre property. Uses it mainly for breaks and oil changes). I really do not want to bother him with my car....

I'm not saying a transmission can't be removed/replaced by one person, with the car on jackstands. But, it won't be fun. Having a lift and two people will make things a LOT easier & safer.

 

[60sRacer]

At least after you've done it once, I've found it easier to remove the entire engine and transmission with an engine hoist than to pull the TX alone from the underside. Biggest problem I had pulling the TX alone was getting the input shaft splines to align with clutch when putting it back in. More cursing than a good Christian should ever do!

Also, replacing the rear main seal on the engine is a PITA from underside. But you really should replace it if you have a leak and already have the TX off the engine.

When you do, remember to put the oil slinger ( a giant washer-like object unique to the 1600 engine) in correctly - it goes on the oily side of the engine crankshaft, not the dry clutch side. Without it you will gush oil out the rear main seal.

Robert

 

[tom shewchuk]

A lot of good advice here Marcos. Resting the transmission on your chest while you turn the tail shaft to match the clutch splines was kinda hard. I did come out from under the car with all my teeth and the transmission in. Use the lift, and a helper. IMHO I would pull the inspection cover, and take a good look. If it's just leakin' a wee bit I'd leave it. I had a reason to pull mine. the throw out bearing was bad, so it was a "while I'm in there" thing.

When you do, remember to put the oil slinger ( a giant washer-like object unique to the 1600 engine) in correctly - it goes on the oily side of the engine crankshaft, not the dry clutch side. Without it you will gush oil out the rear main seal.

I was wondering what that big washer was called.I'm doing an engine rebuild, and one of my 1600's didn't have one, but the one I'm rebuilding did, so I put it back in where it was. Always a good thing to do. The motor without the washer leaked.

 

[60sRacer]

And that's exactly where it goes - under the crankshaft seal. Also, put the crankshaft seal in so that the circumferential spring is on the inside of the engine. Think: "The engine pressure (minor blow-by from the rings) adds to sealing the crankshaft".

Robert

 

[tom shewchuk]

Like this. (sorry Marcos). A little more transmission advice. When I removed mine I didn't drain the fluid. You have to remove the bell housing to replace the front seal. On the American transmissions the bell housing doesn't seal the transmission. I put the Alfa trans on the bench loosened all the bell housing nuts, and after a few good pulls I filled my shoes with stinky gear oil. Alfa's bell housings seals the transmission. Drain the fluid.

 

[60sRacer]

You can also see how well you've installed the cigarette seals in the rear main cap on the engine!

Robert

 

[Cali67Duetto]

Like this. (sorry Marcos). A little more transmission advice. When I removed mine I didn't drain the fluid. You have to remove the bell housing to replace the front seal. On the American transmissions the bell housing doesn't seal the transmission. I put the Alfa trans on the bench loosened all the bell housing nuts, and after a few good pulls I filled my shoes with stinky gear oil. Alfa's bell housings seals the transmission. Drain the fluid.

Please don't apologize, I am soaking all this information in The more the better! I would rather learn from friends who have "been down that road before", then my banging my head on the garage walls Keep in coming, assume I have no clue, cause for the most part I don't. I'll get it done, just need as much advice as I can get before I start. I am pretty darn sure I am gonna pull the engine and tranny together.

 

[tom shewchuk]

There are 2 seals the front, and rear transmission seals. The usual parts sources have them. There are a few tricks. First empty the trans fluid, but not on your shoes. To replace the rear seal remove the flex joint/ giubo. Tighten a large hose clamp around it before you take it off, and don't remove it till it's reinstalled. Here's a link to my post, and a good diagram that Gordon Raymond was kind enough to post. http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/transmissions/156751-rear-trans-seal.html. Remove the nut, and lock washer, pull the short shaft out carefully pry out the seal, paying attention to which way it faced. press the new seal in with a suitable sized socket, and put things back together. For the front remove the throwout bearing. Just 2 clips. Remove all the nuts in the picture. The bell housing is sealed to the transmission with gasket sealant so it's not going to fall right off. Slide it off the shaft, clean off all the old sealant, and pry out the old seal paying attention to which way it faced. Install the new seal, and apply new sealant. wrap a sheet of paper around the splines of the input shaft so you don't rip the new seal when you slide the bell housing back on. Reattach the nuts. If I missed anything I'm sure Jay, or Robert will fill in.

 

[60sRacer]

I use masking tape over the splines of the input shaft. They are really sharp. Be sure to oil the seal before you install it.

The torque on the rear yoke is important when you re-install it. I got a 1-1/16 by 1-1/8 closed wrench from Craftsman just for this nut. Metrics are easier to find now though.

Inspect the surface of the yoke for wear - often it forms a groove. The input shaft is much harder and usually does not.

Be sure to use the right sealer on the front of the bell housing to TX surfaces when you re-assemble. Clean all the old sealant with lacquer thinner.

Robert

 

[mikem]

Hi Marcos,
Before you pull the trans, check to see if the leak is coming from above the main shaft where the 3 shift shafts protrude out the top. These are sealed by square section o-rings that tend to not seal so well after 40+ years. Replacing them involves spliting the trans cases, and finding suitable seals...not something to take lightly!
Mike

 

[60sRacer]

The shift lever seals are at the top of the transmission, and really only have to seal vapor with no pressure. It's unlikely they source much of a leak. In the 67 TX, the shift rods only serve to actuate the back-up light switch off the 5-R rod.

Later TX's use shorter rods, eliminating the holes in the bell housing, and eliminating the seals. For these, the R switch moves to the tail shaft housing. Unfortunately, the 67 bell housing is needed for the 1600 clutch mechanism.

But the seal to check is the engine main seal. I've not seen a lot of TX oil in the bell housing, but there has often been engine oil.

Robert